Poor kid in a rich district..... (Old Field: private school, college, income)

[juppiter]

Originally Posted by StephM

Some friends were discussing this. With the market tanking, many people can now afford to be in top districts. One concern many of us had is our children being the poor kid in a rich district, and never being able to keep up with their peers.

Some of us felt it was better to have the top district, and the child would learn that its just life to have someone richer, prettier, smarter, etc. than you. Others felt that being the poor kid could have a severe negative impact on the child.

So, what do you think?

I was a middle class kid in a rich district and people were soooo snobby and obnoxious. But honestly it kinda motivated me and now that I'm in college with real people I don't even think about high school anymore.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by AndreaII

Have to say that I agree overall with OhBeeHave - my kids grew up in TVCSD, had friends stretching from one end of the district to the other; all the kids were very supportive of each other. Sounds too good to be true, but that was our experience. We still are very good friends with many of the parents even though our kids have all graduated from HS. Luckily my kids had the sense to not hang around with a bad crowd either - that's when trouble can begin, I would think. We've been very lucky in that regard.

Three Village is mostly middle and upper middle class. Old Field is actually a small area, and not everyone who lives there can actually afford it, so there really aren't that many very wealthy kids in the school district overall.

My kids went to Murphy, certainly didn't suffer for it, took advantage of the programs offered throughout the district, and came out well - one graduated from an Ivy, and the other is in a very highly rate college. Overall, the district did well for my kids - nothing is perfect, some teachers we better than others, but have to say that the upper track well prepared my kids for college academia.

And OhBeeHave, I wouldn't waste my energy trying to convince posters on this thread what the truth is. They know what they know, they believe what they believe. But you and I at least know what the truth is.

Maybe things have changed over the years but when I was there it was a tale of two towns and the Murphy kids were considered low rent.Wouldnt change it for nothing though, I loved growing up there.I think the area has changed for the better but sadly it was at the expense of the Middle Class.

Just for comedy, what does the bad crowd look like on the mean streets of Stony Brook these days?


crooks

[Samalabear]

I moved out to the Three Village area when my son was 5. I thought this would be great. Unfortunately, in the second grade my son was labeled ED. He wasn't, but thanks to Three Village he did become ED. He was very bright but he definitely had learning disabilities. He got virtually no help for those problems. They focused on behavior. First he was diagnosed ADHD. They refused to do any thorough testing on him -- and we did not have the money for it.

To cut to the chase, my son had incredible ups and downs for years. He was dumbed down grossly the entire time. When he started school he, by any measure, he was considered very bright. Over the years this school district broke our family down completely. He wasn't properly diagnosed until he became suicidal when he started at Murphy. He had a very abusive teacher named Moderator cut: I had to remove a private name as we here on cd can be held liable

in the special ed classes. One day they found my son near an open window in the bathroom and thought he was "suicidal." Now, the only time my son had ever become suicidal was the brief time he was on Ritalin (won't even go into what that drug did to him, or the others he was on -- long, ugly story). He was having a very hard time with Anzalone's tendency to throw furniture (my son was reported to be found under a chair in a fetal position one day he was so frightened) and be very demeaning to the kids.

Anyway, I get a call that I had to come to the school right away and take him out. He was not allowed to come back to school. I picked him up -- and I remember this so vividly -- got him some breakfast to go and we went to West Meadow Beach. It was empty except for us. I wasn't angry at my son, I had already experienced meetings with both
Moderator cut: names of individuals removed
, the psychologist. One word I would use -- demeaning. Believe me, I could use many others. I asked my son did he want to kill himself. He said no, I just had to get out of there and no one would listen to me.

The Committee on Special Education finally -- finally -- after all these years was required to have a thorough evaluation done. I was given the list and the choice of where to take him. I took him to Stony Brook. My son -- wrongly diagnosed over the years with ADHD, the bipolar, etc. -- after a thorough two-week assessment was diagnosed with Aspherger's Syndrome (high-functioning autism).

Without my even asking the doctor came to the next CSE meeting and attempted to explain Asperger's to the dummies on the CSE. They asked about medication and the doctor said my son doesn't need medication, he needs a good learning environment to meet his needs. They had no such thing. The best they could come up with was a new BOCES school in Port Jefferson for at-risk kids. It was a good place with caring people and my son would have done well there but for the fact that it was a little too late. He ended up in Nasaquake in St. James (BOCES) after that and that is where he found marijuana. He just kept falling apart and dropped out of school at 17. I was out for a year. Somehow I convinced him to go back, that he needed a high school diploma, not a GED. Back to the CSE we went and a one-on-one placement in Bayshore at an ALC was found. He completed one-and-a-half grades in one year and graduated. His grades were better than they had ever been.

I have not gone into the whole insufferable mess with my child's education. Most of his friends are as messed up as he is from their experience in this wonderful word of special ed at Three Village. They were all bounced from place to place, filled with all kinds of drugs -- starting with Ritalin usually -- and today they've moved on to the illegal kind -- lots of alcoholism, marijuana, heroin, etc.

Because of my son's problems, as a family we became very isolated. My son was a constant target and the butt of jokes by the so-called "normal" kids. Their parents, believe me, were not much better. Whatever parents I had become friendly with when I first moved here refused to speak to me or have anything to do with me once my son was put the "mini-bus."

At one point I went to a support group for parents of adult children with Asperger's run by the Cody Center and at that meeting was someone who dealt with the NYC system. She said as bad as NYC can be, she was absolutely shocked at the wealthy districts of Long Island and how they treated their special ed students -- the denial of services or taking services away -- such as therapy -- without telling the parents is the norm (this was definitely my experience).

My son is now almost 25, he can barely hold a job, he's been through two rehabs in two years. At the moment the best I can say is that he is "clean." He is angry and bitter and direction-less, and all I can do is pray and depend on al-anon (where you will find some of the best people in the world).

As a parent I was able to find many things that did help my son, like a special camp in Rhinebeck, but they were band-aids. He would deteriorate each school year by the time Halloween rolled around and then it was a battle royale until the end of the year.

There were only two teachers that my son had that were absolutely the best, but he was only with them a short time (two years). During those times his grades were high. My son, in short, was "turned on" to learning again. All other times he barely passed. I found in Three Village the norm was blame the parents and blame the child. Neither myself or my son's father drinks or has ever used illegal drugs, and all of that "just say no" and "lead by example" did not work with my son.

By the time my son was 5 he was talking about being an architect. He was passionate about Legos and Lincoln Logs. He never followed the instruction but built fantastical structures from his imagination. Later on he fell in love with cuilinary arts. All of that passion slowly disappeared into drugs, alcohol and video games. Drowning out the pain of education? Most definitely. Eight placements in 12 years -- I think that says it all.

I had a Catholic education and it was, by any standard, excellent. I tried to get my son out of Three Village at one time and into Infant Jesus, but once a child is "labeled" they don't take them into Catholic schools. So if anybody is asking why I didn't take him out of Three Village, that's why. I certainly tried. I was doing a lot of research and trying to get help. It destroyed my income because of all the time I had to constantly take off (I am self-employed). It was a vicious circle, I guess you could say.

Had I had my son's humiliating educational experience I would not have survived to 25. I would have ended it all.

I had very high expectations from this award-winning school district. I grabbed at what I thought was a great opportunity. I certainly did not see any of this coming. My son, like I said, was exuberant, beautiful and bright. He had gone to an educational day care from eight weeks of age, but since I could have a flexible schedule I would take him to NYC with me when I delivered work and we would spend lots of times at MOMA, Museum of Natural History and the Hayden Planetarium, etc. He had had a great start before he started kindergarten.

I didn't expect this to be so long, but I think sometimes it's good for "normal" people to see the other side of the equation. I have no idea how Three Village treats its special population today. Do you think that for the enormous amount of money that Special Education costs they could have done a better job for my son? You betcha. What an enormous waste of taxpayer money. This is an issue that all residents should be interested in.

[nancy thereader]

As the parent of a child who was in this type of situation, I totally empathize with you. I am sorry that I needed to remove the names of teachers and psychologists, but we can not have private names here on city-data for obvious reasons . I did not wish to delete such a valuable and interesting post, though.

Thanks.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by Samalabear

I moved out to the Three Village area when my son was 5. I thought this would be great. Unfortunately, in the second grade my son was labeled ED. He wasn't, but thanks to Three Village he did become ED. He was very bright but he definitely had learning disabilities. He got virtually no help for those problems. They focused on behavior. First he was diagnosed ADHD. They refused to do any thorough testing on him -- and we did not have the money for it.

To cut to the chase, my son had incredible ups and downs for years. He was dumbed down grossly the entire time. When he started school he, by any measure, he was considered very bright. Over the years this school district broke our family down completely. He wasn't properly diagnosed until he became suicidal when he started at Murphy. He had a very abusive teacher named Moderator cut: I had to remove a private name as we here on cd can be held liable

in the special ed classes. One day they found my son near an open window in the bathroom and thought he was "suicidal." Now, the only time my son had ever become suicidal was the brief time he was on Ritalin (won't even go into what that drug did to him, or the others he was on -- long, ugly story). He was having a very hard time with Anzalone's tendency to throw furniture (my son was reported to be found under a chair in a fetal position one day he was so frightened) and be very demeaning to the kids.

Anyway, I get a call that I had to come to the school right away and take him out. He was not allowed to come back to school. I picked him up -- and I remember this so vividly -- got him some breakfast to go and we went to West Meadow Beach. It was empty except for us. I wasn't angry at my son, I had already experienced meetings with both
Moderator cut: names of individuals removed
, the psychologist. One word I would use -- demeaning. Believe me, I could use many others. I asked my son did he want to kill himself. He said no, I just had to get out of there and no one would listen to me.

The Committee on Special Education finally -- finally -- after all these years was required to have a thorough evaluation done. I was given the list and the choice of where to take him. I took him to Stony Brook. My son -- wrongly diagnosed over the years with ADHD, the bipolar, etc. -- after a thorough two-week assessment was diagnosed with Aspherger's Syndrome (high-functioning autism).

Without my even asking the doctor came to the next CSE meeting and attempted to explain Asperger's to the dummies on the CSE. They asked about medication and the doctor said my son doesn't need medication, he needs a good learning environment to meet his needs. They had no such thing. The best they could come up with was a new BOCES school in Port Jefferson for at-risk kids. It was a good place with caring people and my son would have done well there but for the fact that it was a little too late. He ended up in Nasaquake in St. James (BOCES) after that and that is where he found marijuana. He just kept falling apart and dropped out of school at 17. I was out for a year. Somehow I convinced him to go back, that he needed a high school diploma, not a GED. Back to the CSE we went and a one-on-one placement in Bayshore at an ALC was found. He completed one-and-a-half grades in one year and graduated. His grades were better than they had ever been.

I have not gone into the whole insufferable mess with my child's education. Most of his friends are as messed up as he is from their experience in this wonderful word of special ed at Three Village. They were all bounced from place to place, filled with all kinds of drugs -- starting with Ritalin usually -- and today they've moved on to the illegal kind -- lots of alcoholism, marijuana, heroin, etc.

Because of my son's problems, as a family we became very isolated. My son was a constant target and the butt of jokes by the so-called "normal" kids. Their parents, believe me, were not much better. Whatever parents I had become friendly with when I first moved here refused to speak to me or have anything to do with me once my son was put the "mini-bus."

At one point I went to a support group for parents of adult children with Asperger's run by the Cody Center and at that meeting was someone who dealt with the NYC system. She said as bad as NYC can be, she was absolutely shocked at the wealthy districts of Long Island and how they treated their special ed students -- the denial of services or taking services away -- such as therapy -- without telling the parents is the norm (this was definitely my experience).

My son is now almost 25, he can barely hold a job, he's been through two rehabs in two years. At the moment the best I can say is that he is "clean." He is angry and bitter and direction-less, and all I can do is pray and depend on al-anon (where you will find some of the best people in the world).

As a parent I was able to find many things that did help my son, like a special camp in Rhinebeck, but they were band-aids. He would deteriorate each school year by the time Halloween rolled around and then it was a battle royale until the end of the year.

There were only two teachers that my son had that were absolutely the best, but he was only with them a short time (two years). During those times his grades were high. My son, in short, was "turned on" to learning again. All other times he barely passed. I found in Three Village the norm was blame the parents and blame the child. Neither myself or my son's father drinks or has ever used illegal drugs, and all of that "just say no" and "lead by example" did not work with my son.

By the time my son was 5 he was talking about being an architect. He was passionate about Legos and Lincoln Logs. He never followed the instruction but built fantastical structures from his imagination. Later on he fell in love with cuilinary arts. All of that passion slowly disappeared into drugs, alcohol and video games. Drowning out the pain of education? Most definitely. Eight placements in 12 years -- I think that says it all.

I had a Catholic education and it was, by any standard, excellent. I tried to get my son out of Three Village at one time and into Infant Jesus, but once a child is "labeled" they don't take them into Catholic schools. So if anybody is asking why I didn't take him out of Three Village, that's why. I certainly tried. I was doing a lot of research and trying to get help. It destroyed my income because of all the time I had to constantly take off (I am self-employed). It was a vicious circle, I guess you could say.

Had I had my son's humiliating educational experience I would not have survived to 25. I would have ended it all.

I had very high expectations from this award-winning school district. I grabbed at what I thought was a great opportunity. I certainly did not see any of this coming. My son, like I said, was exuberant, beautiful and bright. He had gone to an educational day care from eight weeks of age, but since I could have a flexible schedule I would take him to NYC with me when I delivered work and we would spend lots of times at MOMA, Museum of Natural History and the Hayden Planetarium, etc. He had had a great start before he started kindergarten.

I didn't expect this to be so long, but I think sometimes it's good for "normal" people to see the other side of the equation. I have no idea how Three Village treats its special population today. Do you think that for the enormous amount of money that Special Education costs they could have done a better job for my son? You betcha. What an enormous waste of taxpayer money. This is an issue that all residents should be interested in.

Thats really sad.

crooks

[AlexisT]

Asperger's Syndrome was only added to the DSM-IV in 1994. Sadly, few educators would have been familiar with it when her son went through the system.

Things are not perfect today, but there has been enormous progress in autism education and services in the past decade.

[omigawd]

This is such a sad, sad story. Very powerful.... you should really see if you can get this story more in the public eye to bring an awareness, not only to what happened to your son but what has happened and is happening to millions of kids.

I don't think Catholic school would have been able to help your son --- Catholic schools aren't prepared in any way to handle anything but your normal, average student. They barely offer extra help to kids struggling in math or reading. Had you put your son in a Catholic school from the beginning, you would have most likely been asked to remove him from the school when his symptoms started surfacing.

The fact that your son is still alive means there is still hope for him. I know it's a long, hard, tedious road, but you have to do everything in your power to get him away from the drugs/alcohol. He has to want to stop and make a better life for himself. Why not take him away for a long weekend and have a real heart-to-heart with him. That could very well be the beginning of his new life.

[Elke Mariotti]

Originally Posted by Samalabear

I moved out to the Three Village area when my son was 5. I thought this would be great. Unfortunately, in the second grade my son was labeled ED. He wasn't, but thanks to Three Village he did become ED. He was very bright but he definitely had learning disabilities. He got virtually no help for those problems. They focused on behavior. First he was diagnosed ADHD. They refused to do any thorough testing on him -- and we did not have the money for it.

To cut to the chase, my son had incredible ups and downs for years. He was dumbed down grossly the entire time. When he started school he, by any measure, he was considered very bright. Over the years this school district broke our family down completely. He wasn't properly diagnosed until he became suicidal when he started at Murphy. He had a very abusive teacher named Moderator cut: I had to remove a private name as we here on cd can be held liable

My heart goes out to you! It must have been very hard on you to watch what was going on without knowing how to improve it.
I wish you and your son all the best.
As the grandmother of an autistic grandson, I definitely understand your frustrations

Things have improved somewhat since then, but just because a school district is "award winning" that does not mean it handles special needs children equally "award winning". There is still a lot of work to be done by many school districts in that area... Fortunately we have some good examples already, i.e. HHH.

As for the parents, a big problem I see is the fact that information on services, etc. is so difficult to find. You need to be very good at research, extremely persistent, and constantly searching, to find what's out there. And once you find it, you often have to fight to get it! Sad that this information is not readily available!
I'm always amazed at how and how much my daughter discovers for my grandson - and gets!

Originally Posted by Samalabear

At one point I went to a support group for parents of adult children with Asperger's run by the Cody Center and at that meeting was someone who dealt with the NYC system. She said as bad as NYC can be, she was absolutely shocked at the wealthy districts of Long Island and how they treated their special ed students -- the denial of services or taking services away -- such as therapy -- without telling the parents is the norm (this was definitely my experience).

I was doing a lot of research and trying to get help. It destroyed my income because of all the time I had to constantly take off (I am self-employed). It was a vicious circle, I guess you could say.

The Cody Center is still a good place to get information where autism is involved. And yes, there are school districts where parents still have to go to court to get the services their children are entitled to (one of my favorite rants, sorry). And then there is the issue of "let's medicate"... Don't get me started

[DITC]

Sorry to hear about this.

Originally Posted by Samalabear

I moved out to the Three Village area when my son was 5. I thought this would be great. Unfortunately, in the second grade my son was labeled ED. He wasn't, but thanks to Three Village he did become ED. He was very bright but he definitely had learning disabilities. He got virtually no help for those problems. They focused on behavior. First he was diagnosed ADHD. They refused to do any thorough testing on him -- and we did not have the money for it.

To cut to the chase, my son had incredible ups and downs for years. He was dumbed down grossly the entire time. When he started school he, by any measure, he was considered very bright. Over the years this school district broke our family down completely. He wasn't properly diagnosed until he became suicidal when he started at Murphy. He had a very abusive teacher named Moderator cut: I had to remove a private name as we here on cd can be held liable

in the special ed classes. One day they found my son near an open window in the bathroom and thought he was "suicidal." Now, the only time my son had ever become suicidal was the brief time he was on Ritalin (won't even go into what that drug did to him, or the others he was on -- long, ugly story). He was having a very hard time with Anzalone's tendency to throw furniture (my son was reported to be found under a chair in a fetal position one day he was so frightened) and be very demeaning to the kids.

Anyway, I get a call that I had to come to the school right away and take him out. He was not allowed to come back to school. I picked him up -- and I remember this so vividly -- got him some breakfast to go and we went to West Meadow Beach. It was empty except for us. I wasn't angry at my son, I had already experienced meetings with both
Moderator cut: names of individuals removed
, the psychologist. One word I would use -- demeaning. Believe me, I could use many others. I asked my son did he want to kill himself. He said no, I just had to get out of there and no one would listen to me.

The Committee on Special Education finally -- finally -- after all these years was required to have a thorough evaluation done. I was given the list and the choice of where to take him. I took him to Stony Brook. My son -- wrongly diagnosed over the years with ADHD, the bipolar, etc. -- after a thorough two-week assessment was diagnosed with Aspherger's Syndrome (high-functioning autism).

Without my even asking the doctor came to the next CSE meeting and attempted to explain Asperger's to the dummies on the CSE. They asked about medication and the doctor said my son doesn't need medication, he needs a good learning environment to meet his needs. They had no such thing. The best they could come up with was a new BOCES school in Port Jefferson for at-risk kids. It was a good place with caring people and my son would have done well there but for the fact that it was a little too late. He ended up in Nasaquake in St. James (BOCES) after that and that is where he found marijuana. He just kept falling apart and dropped out of school at 17. I was out for a year. Somehow I convinced him to go back, that he needed a high school diploma, not a GED. Back to the CSE we went and a one-on-one placement in Bayshore at an ALC was found. He completed one-and-a-half grades in one year and graduated. His grades were better than they had ever been.

I have not gone into the whole insufferable mess with my child's education. Most of his friends are as messed up as he is from their experience in this wonderful word of special ed at Three Village. They were all bounced from place to place, filled with all kinds of drugs -- starting with Ritalin usually -- and today they've moved on to the illegal kind -- lots of alcoholism, marijuana, heroin, etc.

Because of my son's problems, as a family we became very isolated. My son was a constant target and the butt of jokes by the so-called "normal" kids. Their parents, believe me, were not much better. Whatever parents I had become friendly with when I first moved here refused to speak to me or have anything to do with me once my son was put the "mini-bus."

At one point I went to a support group for parents of adult children with Asperger's run by the Cody Center and at that meeting was someone who dealt with the NYC system. She said as bad as NYC can be, she was absolutely shocked at the wealthy districts of Long Island and how they treated their special ed students -- the denial of services or taking services away -- such as therapy -- without telling the parents is the norm (this was definitely my experience).

My son is now almost 25, he can barely hold a job, he's been through two rehabs in two years. At the moment the best I can say is that he is "clean." He is angry and bitter and direction-less, and all I can do is pray and depend on al-anon (where you will find some of the best people in the world).

As a parent I was able to find many things that did help my son, like a special camp in Rhinebeck, but they were band-aids. He would deteriorate each school year by the time Halloween rolled around and then it was a battle royale until the end of the year.

There were only two teachers that my son had that were absolutely the best, but he was only with them a short time (two years). During those times his grades were high. My son, in short, was "turned on" to learning again. All other times he barely passed. I found in Three Village the norm was blame the parents and blame the child. Neither myself or my son's father drinks or has ever used illegal drugs, and all of that "just say no" and "lead by example" did not work with my son.

By the time my son was 5 he was talking about being an architect. He was passionate about Legos and Lincoln Logs. He never followed the instruction but built fantastical structures from his imagination. Later on he fell in love with cuilinary arts. All of that passion slowly disappeared into drugs, alcohol and video games. Drowning out the pain of education? Most definitely. Eight placements in 12 years -- I think that says it all.

I had a Catholic education and it was, by any standard, excellent. I tried to get my son out of Three Village at one time and into Infant Jesus, but once a child is "labeled" they don't take them into Catholic schools. So if anybody is asking why I didn't take him out of Three Village, that's why. I certainly tried. I was doing a lot of research and trying to get help. It destroyed my income because of all the time I had to constantly take off (I am self-employed). It was a vicious circle, I guess you could say.

Had I had my son's humiliating educational experience I would not have survived to 25. I would have ended it all.

I had very high expectations from this award-winning school district. I grabbed at what I thought was a great opportunity. I certainly did not see any of this coming. My son, like I said, was exuberant, beautiful and bright. He had gone to an educational day care from eight weeks of age, but since I could have a flexible schedule I would take him to NYC with me when I delivered work and we would spend lots of times at MOMA, Museum of Natural History and the Hayden Planetarium, etc. He had had a great start before he started kindergarten.

I didn't expect this to be so long, but I think sometimes it's good for "normal" people to see the other side of the equation. I have no idea how Three Village treats its special population today. Do you think that for the enormous amount of money that Special Education costs they could have done a better job for my son? You betcha. What an enormous waste of taxpayer money. This is an issue that all residents should be interested in.

[S.I.B.]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Had you read my post, you would have noticed that I DID acknowledge that for some people (not only children) there is the possibility of envy and that this envy is not exclusive to 'rich' areas.

Perhaps, but you seem adamant about the idea that a children raised a certain way are largely immune to this. As you stated earlier:

"If a person tries to keep up with the Joneses, their children will keep up with the Joneses."

I feel that how a person is raised ends up being mostly irrelevant in these scenarios.

Envy also is not limited to 'poor' children. I've seen envy amongst 'rich' people, too. Like you've written it is human nature. Human nature knows no economic boundaries.

I never said it did.

My POV isn't limited as you would like to accuse it of being. I never claimed my children are perfectly raised; they are raised however, as best as possible to face the real world. Does that really bother you so much that you had to make a snide remark?

lol. You keep going back to your own children. IMO, how you raised your children is irrelevant. If you stopped focusing on your own situation, perhaps you'd be able to see the point I'm making.

I never gave in to the whims of petulant children. Crying and having a fit never solved anything and caving into such fits only helps to create a spoiled child.

Again, back to YOUR children. Do you want a cookie? This is parenting 101 and applies to parents of all economic backgrounds. An unspoiled child is NOT immune to social pressures brought on by economic disaparities.

Rather than pick apart my child rearing

I have done no such thing. I've simply commented on your inability to see beyond your own experience.

why not tell the OP what your experience has been?

Where I grew up, most kids were largely from the same economic background so I never really noticed rich kids/poor kids. However, I went to a large catholic high school that attracted students from all over LI. Therefore, there was a HUGE disparity in incomes among the parents. As I said earlier, I don't think anyone expereinced a "severe negative impact", however there often was a certain social status confered to those who had the new car/big house/etc.

IMO, those who who do not have that status bestowed upon them could POTENTIALLY feel slighted. That's all I'm saying.

Let's see if you can avoid describing your own child rearing skills in a response.