May be Illegal to Discriminate Against Sect. 8 (New York, York: rental, credit score)

[newtoli]

It seems to mean that if you already ACCEPT Section 8, you cannot discriminate against a Section 8 applicant vs. a non Section 8 applicant. A landlord cannot be forced to register with Section 8 - it requires inspections. But - if you already accept it, you cannot take non-Section 8 over Section 8 simply because of where the funds come from.

So you could also require a certain FICO score to rent, say 760. Or you can require that the tenant make 40x the monthly rent annually as an income requirement. You just can't deny someone based on the source of their income.

[Escape_From_NY]

Originally Posted by newtoli

It seems to mean that if you already ACCEPT Section 8, you cannot discriminate against a Section 8 applicant vs. a non Section 8 applicant. A landlord cannot be forced to register with Section 8 - it requires inspections. But - if you already accept it, you cannot take non-Section 8 over Section 8 simply because of where the funds come from.

So you could also require a certain FICO score to rent, say 760. Or you can require that the tenant make 40x the monthly rent annually as an income requirement. You just can't deny someone based on the source of their income.

Thanks for the info. My question was actually a tad off-topic because I was inquiring into rentals in general(non-section 8), and more specifically, wether I had more leeway say, renting out a room in the home I live in, versus renting out a SFH rental property that I don't live in.

As for the "source of income" being a protected class, I can't help but wonder wether this might bring about some interesting conundrums for landlords due to the Patriot Act, and anti-moneylaundering statutes? If you are no longer allowed to inquire as to the source of a prospective tenant's income, then you as a landlord, should be automatically off the hook when it turns out your tenant is a drug-trafficker, or has some such other (ahem)"non-traditional" cash income that would be frowned upon by polite society, and that you've been depositing that money in your bank account to pay your bills.

[okaydorothy]

Some section 8 tenants are wonderful. I am sure they are. Unfortuantely I had two section 8 tenants ; the government sent the check no problem ; however the problem was when the tenants were working more so their rental benefit from the government was decreased ; they couldnt come up with the difference.
One had to be evicted due to non payment of rent. To give her credit, she left the house in good condition. When the judge asked her why she wasnt paying the rent, she shrugged her soulders.

The other one is still in the house. However, she has not paid her $128 rent from Jan or Feb. She didnt pay Decembers, but I told her that was a xmas gift from me. She has not paid March either and has promised me that she will have it on Friday. The house inside did pass the inspection, however today it wouldnt. Why ; because she has taken out the batteries in the smoke alarm, she has taken locks off doors, she has taken molding off doors, she had a leak in the 2nd bathroom and even though her son was asked not to use that bathroom until it was fixed he continued to do so and so we had to replace the hallway ceiling. She gets oil from Heap, gets every benefit she can possibly get.

And no, I am not a bad landlord ; I keep on top of things, all I ask is that the rent be paid on time so I can pay my mortgages on time.

as I said, some section 8 tenants can be good, others ; point taken. But yet we cannot discriminate against anyone these days.

d

[TomMoser]

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

Tom, perhaps you can clear this up for me - I am aware(in general) of the fair housing laws regarding discrimination, but doesn't the owner of an owner-occupied, non-commercial residencial property have more legal leeway to decide who he wants to rent to and who he doesn't?

It is my understanding that owner occupied 1-4 family homes are exempt. It is still best to steer clear of practices that could end up getting you sued.

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

Also, do you know if it would be legal to advertise a property for rent and
require a certain FICO score as a presrequisite for being accepted as a tenant? I mean, if you say "800 FICO or higher required" and apply the same standard to everyone that wants to rent your property, you aren't really discriminating(since even a low income person can achieve a high FICO) against any protected class, right?;-)

Perfectly legal. You can always disqualify someone based on an unsatisfactory credit report. In fact, I think landlords who do not run credit reports are out of their minds. If someone cannot pay their verizon bill, they probably can't pay you.

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

Since many landlords already require credit checks, why not simply set the bar *high*, an use that as a "filter" of sorts to weed out the tenants you don't want? Legal? Ethical? Thoughts?

Legal, ethical, and wise. Here are the reports that I routinely run for my landlord clients on potential tenants:

Credit Report with FICO score
Criminal Records
Sex Offender Registry
Prior Evictions

[Elke Mariotti]

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

more specifically, wether I had more leeway say, renting out a room in the home I live in, versus renting out a SFH rental property that I don't live in.

Renting a room would fall under "house sharing" and gives you a lot more leeway. Of course if you rent "a room" to more than one person, i.e. one room each to separate people, you'd have to watch out for the "Boarding house" rules...

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

As for the "source of income" being a protected class, I can't help but wonder wether this might bring about some interesting conundrums for landlords due to the Patriot Act, and anti-moneylaundering statutes? If you are no longer allowed to inquire as to the source of a prospective tenant's income, then you as a landlord, should be automatically off the hook when it turns out your tenant is a drug-trafficker, or has some such other (ahem)"non-traditional" cash income that would be frowned upon by polite society, and that you've been depositing that money in your bank account to pay your bills.

Very interesting point! Wonder if the "powers that be" who came up with the "source of income" rule gave that any thought; IMHO.... not!

[Escape_From_NY]

Thank you to both RE agents in Huntington and Northport. I used to live in E.Northport(one of the best deals and landlords I ever had, and the only one I got through an agent, but worth every penny of the commish About a block in behind the gas station at Elwood and Pulaski. Also, I worked in Huntington up until last Nov, and one of my co-worker's wife works for Prudential(?) there. Both nice areas, as is Greenlawn.

[arangoa79]

I'll research this and find out if it's true. I have a few rental properties and may be subject to this. If I am there is a simple work around, just tell them you do accept section 8 but offer the place to someone else.

[TomMoser]

Originally Posted by arangoa79

If I am there is a simple work around, just tell them you do accept section 8 but offer the place to someone else.

If they are otherwise equally qualified, this would be blantantly illegal. Not being judgemental, just stating the fact.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by TomMoser

I thought that you might find interesting the following notice which Multiple Listing Participants received today:

The “Rental Programs” data fields on rental listings have been removed. These data fields will no longer appear on Stratus. This change has been made due to the current law in New York City and Nassau County making “source of income” a protected class. Although “source of income” has not been classified as a protected class in Suffolk County, due to the current legal trend it is prudent to delete this data field for all counties.

As you know, there can be no discrimination in housing based on a protected class. Now that “source of income” has been classified as a protected class, a realtor shall not discriminate based on a person’s source of income. The “Rental Programs” data fields have been eliminated so not to have the appearance of distinguishing between sources of income. It is crucial not to discriminate on the basis of a protected class for the fines and penalties can be severe.

This was enacted last year in NYC regarding Section 8:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/ny...ants.html?_r=1

Is it now the same in Nassau?

Or is Nassau's "source of income" protected class NOT necessarily anything to do with official Section 8 laws, but an addition to general existing non-discrimination law for housing in Nassau County?

I understand how "non-acceptance of programs" ties in as being discriminatory against the source of income for the rent, but is there actually an official tie to Section 8 and/or other program laws?

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

Some section 8 tenants are wonderful. I am sure they are. Unfortuantely I had two section 8 tenants ; the government sent the check no problem ; however the problem was when the tenants were working more so their rental benefit from the government was decreased ; they couldnt come up with the difference.
One had to be evicted due to non payment of rent. To give her credit, she left the house in good condition. When the judge asked her why she wasnt paying the rent, she shrugged her soulders.

The other one is still in the house. However, she has not paid her $128 rent from Jan or Feb. She didnt pay Decembers, but I told her that was a xmas gift from me. She has not paid March either and has promised me that she will have it on Friday. The house inside did pass the inspection, however today it wouldnt. Why ; because she has taken out the batteries in the smoke alarm, she has taken locks off doors, she has taken molding off doors, she had a leak in the 2nd bathroom and even though her son was asked not to use that bathroom until it was fixed he continued to do so and so we had to replace the hallway ceiling. She gets oil from Heap, gets every benefit she can possibly get.

And no, I am not a bad landlord ; I keep on top of things, all I ask is that the rent be paid on time so I can pay my mortgages on time.

as I said, some section 8 tenants can be good, others ; point taken. But yet we cannot discriminate against anyone these days.

d

Is the house on Long Island? What made you decide to accept Section 8? Were these tenants people that you already knew and thought you could trust?

I agree that not all Section 8 tenants should be painted with the same brush. I know someone who is on it because of a disability that prevents her from working. She used to work and now she can't. She pays her share of the rent, keeps her apartment decent, doesn't cause disturbances and has rented the same place for many years now.