Ahh...thats where my $10,000+ in taxes goes (Ronkonkoma, Nassau: houses, schools)

[llama8]

Why all the hate for teachers. Most educated people with a Master's Degree make equal to and usually more than teachers. It seems that people on this board want teachers to be cut to such a low salary that living on LI would be impossible. Good teachers and good schools help property values and without teachers, where would all other professions be?

I am a teacher and I do wish Newsday publicized all of the distric payscales so everyone would realize that teachers don't make nearly as much as people think.

By only printing the abberation (top 1% of paid teachers in certain districts) Newday has given the private sector the impression that teachers are rolling in the dough. That is totally not the case.

Also, why do people on this board seem to assume all teachers graduated from Dowling??? In my school of 180 teachers, not one was from Dowling. Does Dowling even have a teaching program??

[Transpl]

Originally Posted by amoret68

What's with all the hate? Why are these boards full of ire for teachers, who need to earn better than $50K to live on LI? They are not overpaid for the job they need to do and the education and continued training they need to do it. The real problem is that the rest of us aren't getting paid what we need to earn, and that has us all sniping at each other.

Over the past two and a half decades, the rich have been getting much richer, and the middle class has been squeezed almost out of existence. Salaries have not kept up with the cost of living. We're working more, earning less, and are looking for someone to blame (on this board, it seems to be teachers). If you are looking for someone to blame, don't look around at your barely getting-by neighbor, look upward.

Look to the corrupt politicians and business leaders, who have installed the rampant de-regulation policies that have turned our economy topsy-turvy. Look to the rich, who think they "deserve" what they have and everyone else can struggle to hang on to the bottom rungs of society. (Have ever met a very wealthy person who hasn't screwed someone along the way to get there?.) Look to the journalists, who will not/cannot publish the truth. Or, better yet, look to their bosses, who print union bashing stories (I'm looking at you Rupert Murdoch and Newsday) to misdirect our collective attention, so we resent people for having, say, the healthcare benefits and retirement options that we should all rightly have in a country as rich and powerful as the US (well, at least, as we were until recently).

While I have no doubt there is waste and possibly graft in the administration of some of 126 school districts, it's not the fault of the teachers. Most teachers just want to do a good job, and none of them got in this field to get rich.

(BTW: I'm not a teacher and I'm not married to a teacher.)

I don't disagree, but here's the rub. The same folks you refer to as being victimized by the thrift of corporate america and dirty poilticians are the ones who are paying the freight.

The Net result is you have overtaxed and underpaid citizens paying through high taxes benefits and salaries of public sector employees that they themselves are not afforded, partially because their taxes are so high! That's the irony of it all.

[TubaFish]

Originally Posted by dman72

Actually, if you cut my wifes salary by 20K, we'd move to a southern state where she'd only take a 10-15K pay cut from her current salary, I'd take maybe 5%, and we'd cut our cost of living in half.

Dman, somehow the economics of this is not working out in my head. If you and your wife would take such a small salary cut and would be moving to a MAGICAL place where the COL is half that of LI, why haven't you moved already? It seems that if a measly $20K is all that's keeping you on LI - given that you don't seem to be otherwise attracted to the area - you're better off moving south. Heaven knows we wouldn't miss having your car on the road.

Originally Posted by dman72

So no, you wouldn't still have the same quality of teacher that you have now in most instances.

You make it seem as though the "HIGH QUALITY" of the teachers can be the only explanation for the success of LI school students. Long story short, did you ever stop to think that children from affluent, well-educated households where parents taked a vested stake in their children's lives are more prone to being successful period? Everyone knows that teachers on LI get their jobs based on WHO they know and not WHAT they know, anyway. Teachers here are like teachers everywhere else, except LI teachers are overpaid. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by dman72

My wife decided to pursue teaching when she could have gone in other directions, as is the case with many, if not most, of the people she works with.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that Goldman Sachs is knocking down the door to hire the next batch of Dowling elementary education graduates into its Global Wealth Management department. That's right, people with teaching degrees have SO MANY lucrative career opportunities.

Get real, your wife enjoyed teaching so she got a degree in teaching. She could have gone in other, more lucrative, directions, but she chose not to because she likes teaching. Getting a degree in teaching means knowing that you will be a government employee = low wages. Are the taxpayers supposed to pay her an egregious salary because of the vague, completely unfounded threat that she "could have gone in other directions"?

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by TubaFish

Dman, somehow the economics of this is not working out in my head. If you and your wife would take such a small salary cut and would be moving to a MAGICAL place where the COL is half that of LI, why haven't you moved already? It seems that if a measly $20K is all that's keeping you on LI - given that you don't seem to be otherwise attracted to the area - you're better off moving south. Heaven knows we wouldn't miss having your car on the road.



You make it seem as though the "HIGH QUALITY" of the teachers can be the only explanation for the success of LI school students. Long story short, did you ever stop to think that children from affluent, well-educated households where parents taked a vested stake in their children's lives are more prone to being successful period? Everyone knows that teachers on LI get their jobs based on WHO they know and not WHAT they know, anyway. Teachers here are like teachers everywhere else, except LI teachers are overpaid. Plain and simple.





Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that Goldman Sachs is knocking down the door to hire the next batch of Dowling elementary education graduates into its Global Wealth Management department. That's right, people with teaching degrees have SO MANY lucrative career opportunities.

Get real, your wife enjoyed teaching so she got a degree in teaching. She could have gone in other, more lucrative, directions, but she chose not to because she likes teaching. Getting a degree in teaching means knowing that you will be a government employee = low wages. Are the taxpayers supposed to pay her an egregious salary because of the vague, completely unfounded threat that she "could have gone in other directions"?

You have offered no reason to believe that teachers or their quality have nothing to do with the success of students on Long Island. I think everyone in this forum will accept that SES influences the success of a child, but it isn't the presence of money alone. It is how that money is spent, and part of that has to do with the school system. There is a reason that rich people gate their communities and make their school systems exclusive and small. They also invest far more money in their systems, and that includes paying their teachers more. This does a number of things, such as drawing top science and math teachers. It also means that the system doesn't cut corners in the special education area, something the Long Island system is well known for - and draws monied people with.

The constant insistence that these teachers are overpaid is absurd. No one has said what they should be paid, and given reason to believe that the new salary would have no impact on the quality of instruction.

I don't care what job you are in - banking or burger flipping - if the boss cuts your pay by 30%, you are going to be pissed and less motivated.

People in here are whining because women are making more than other working class people. I say, "Finally! Teachers are getting paid what they are worth!"

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by TubaFish

You make it seem as though the "HIGH QUALITY" of the teachers can be the only explanation for the success of LI school students. Long story short, did you ever stop to think that children from affluent, well-educated households where parents taked a vested stake in their children's lives are more prone to being successful period?

What about manhattan, housing a great deal of wealth, where do these kids go ... private school. Why don't they just get sent to public school since all the kids in those areas are wealthy and their parents will motivate them making them good students so private school is not needed right? NYC schools are simply not as good. No offense to NYC school teachers, but the high salaries of long island will attract the higher performing teachers and given a choice a large percentage of NYC teachers would probably switch over. Its not just about who you know, you have to perform as well. Teachers do get fired if they don't perform and there is such demand in long island due to the high salary they have the pick of the litter which in other places they are sometimes starving for teachers and recruit people from overseas who don't even speak english well.

I don't have a link to the source, but wealth is not actually as strong an indicator of academic success as you think. If you look at the ivy leagues and top colleges, the percentages of asians has increased dramatically over the years because of the value the culture places on education, and they will try hard to get their kids into better schools, not because they are all wealthy.

[ResearchMom]

What I find interesting, is the ease with which students from Europe (Germany, Poland, Russia) come here and study, even at the PhD level. I have a friend in Europe, who's son is only 15, and he's all ready for applying one day to Harvard. Another one just graduated from Harvard with a law degree. Funny thing, noone cares what schools these kids have behind them, and somehow I find that comforting.

Here is a thought. Leave the country and work somewhere in Europe or Asia (!) for a while, where the schools are excellent and practically free. Then come back and your kid will have the advantage everyone is so desperately looking for ;-)

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by ResearchMom

What I find interesting, is the ease with which students from Europe (Germany, Poland, Russia) come here and study, even at the PhD level. I have a friend in Europe, who's son is only 15, and he's all ready for applying one day to Harvard. Another one just graduated from Harvard with a law degree. Funny thing, noone cares what schools these kids have behind them, and somehow I find that comforting.

Here is a thought. Leave the country and work somewhere in Europe or Asia (!) for a while, where the schools are excellent and practically free. Then come back and your kid will have the advantage everyone is so desperately looking for ;-)

1) Long Island schools are much the same in that your scores plus a Regent's pedigree will give you access to school you wouldn't otherwise have.

2) Note that most European schools track poor performing students out and don't allow them to go to college. US schools don't do this, and so our teachers deal with a mixed bag of students.

3) Most European students applying in the US for college intend to pay full tuition which makes them more attractive, particularly to private colleges. Schools have levels of students that they allow in; top level students get the most financial aid. Poor performing students pay full tuition, and there is always a place for them, and they often out-number the best students.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

You have offered no reason to believe that teachers or their quality have nothing to do with the success of students on Long Island. I think everyone in this forum will accept that SES influences the success of a child, but it isn't the presence of money alone. It is how that money is spent, and part of that has to do with the school system. There is a reason that rich people gate their communities and make their school systems exclusive and small. They also invest far more money in their systems, and that includes paying their teachers more. This does a number of things, such as drawing top science and math teachers. It also means that the system doesn't cut corners in the special education area, something the Long Island system is well known for - and draws monied people with.

The constant insistence that these teachers are overpaid is absurd. No one has said what they should be paid, and given reason to believe that the new salary would have no impact on the quality of instruction.

I don't care what job you are in - banking or burger flipping - if the boss cuts your pay by 30%, you are going to be pissed and less motivated.

People in here are whining because women are making more than other working class people. I say, "Finally! Teachers are getting paid what they are worth!"

No reason to try to argue rationally with the irrational. After the 3rd mention of Dowling and Goldman Sachs, you should realize that someone is dealing in anger and hyperbole, and has no interest in an honest discussion. Better to ignore.

[Mantaray14]

Originally Posted by TubaFish

You make it seem as though the "HIGH QUALITY" of the teachers can be the only explanation for the success of LI school students. Long story short, did you ever stop to think that children from affluent, well-educated households where parents taked a vested stake in their children's lives are more prone to being successful period? Everyone knows that teachers on LI get their jobs based on WHO they know and not WHAT they know, anyway. Teachers here are like teachers everywhere else, except LI teachers are overpaid. Plain and simple.

I know tons of LI teachers and people in the school system and I agree with this. I don't feel they are all undeserving but I would switch places with them in second right now. Most households (bacause of layoffs) will be making less than a LI teacher by the end of year without summers and holidays off.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Mantaray14

I know tons of LI teachers and people in the school system and I agree with this. I don't feel they are all undeserving but I would switch places with them in second right now. Most households (bacause of layoffs) will be making less than a LI teacher by the end of year without summers and holidays off.

Fine - I'd trade places with a billionaire knowing what I know now. Your desire to earn as much doesn't mean they should paid as they are.

What are the reasons to reduce their pay, and how do we know that doing so wouldn't harm the quality of the education???

Support these assertions.

Middle class people, you are eating your own! Your neighbor is doing well and you want them to get paid less. Blame the bastards you work for for not paying you better! GDP has grown exponentially in the last 30 years, but working class pay has flatlined. WHY? Because rich folks are competing to see who can build the biggest boat. You cheer on the rich when they are on TV, and ***** about the neighbor when she earns too much.

WTF?