may move to LI ...help! (Nassau: school districts, subsidized, income)

[Burb]

Originally Posted by dman72

Where on green earth are these 300K houses in Babylon that people keep talking about? Mls doesn't show a single 3 bedroom house in Babylon, in Babylon SD, for less than 349K. Yes, there are a few in North Babylon and West Babylon that go to Babylon schools..but that's not the same thing.

I'm not sure I agree, with town/zip/SD boundaries rarely lining up on LI, price is usually SD driven right?

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Burb

I'm not sure I agree, with town/zip/SD boundaries rarely lining up on LI, price is usually SD driven right?

A house in North Babylon that goes to Babylon schools will re-sell higher than a house in North Babylon NOT in Babylon schools, but the same house will not sell for the same price as a house in Babylon schools with a zip code actually in Babylon. There are multiple variables.

(Awaits Walter's maps)

[anotherNYer]

These posts always come back to teacher salaries. The problem is most people have trouble justifying teacher salaries for a host of reasons. I am a teacher and I will say this. Most teachers have only taught. I earned my masters in education 10 years after I earned a business degree and worked in corporate America. the thing is being a teacher is exhausting, hard work. BUT it is 180 days a year with entitled sick days and personal days. When you have worked elsewhere you realize teaching is a rewarding, nice job with alot of breaks to rejuvinate yourself. Most people do not have that luxury and do not feel sorry for the teacher. In addition the unions are not willing to compromise on health care and pensions. Believe me the time will come when people will say enough. One district in Suffolk was given the option to give up a personal day so they would not have to lay off teachers. What a surprise, no one was willing to do it. In this economy I know it is everyman for himself but if you were the one to be let go, wouldn't you want someone to make a concession. Also where else are you guaranteed a job for life. NO WHERE, that infuriates people. I'm sick of hearing it's for protection. Wouldn't everyone like to be protected. The largest chunk of LI taxes are school taxes. Why can a private school educate a child for $5,000 and a public school needs over $10,000. Contrary to other posts, although some private schools are feeling the brunt of the economy, many have waiting lists. Teachers in private schools are just as dedicated and educated as public.

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by anotherNYer

These posts always come back to teacher salaries. The problem is most people have trouble justifying teacher salaries for a host of reasons. I am a teacher and I will say this. Most teachers have only taught. I earned my masters in education 10 years after I earned a business degree and worked in corporate America. the thing is being a teacher is exhausting, hard work. BUT it is 180 days a year with entitled sick days and personal days. When you have worked elsewhere you realize teaching is a rewarding, nice job with alot of breaks to rejuvinate yourself. Most people do not have that luxury and do not feel sorry for the teacher. In addition the unions are not willing to compromise on health care and pensions. Believe me the time will come when people will say enough. One district in Suffolk was given the option to give up a personal day so they would not have to lay off teachers. What a surprise, no one was willing to do it. In this economy I know it is everyman for himself but if you were the one to be let go, wouldn't you want someone to make a concession. Also where else are you guaranteed a job for life. NO WHERE, that infuriates people. I'm sick of hearing it's for protection. Wouldn't everyone like to be protected. The largest chunk of LI taxes are school taxes. Why can a private school educate a child for $5,000 and a public school needs over $10,000. Contrary to other posts, although some private schools are feeling the brunt of the economy, many have waiting lists. Teachers in private schools are just as dedicated and educated as public.

Not for nothing but, there are plenty of high paid stiffs in the private sector. Blanket statements that imply those that have only taught are somehow lesser contributors to the economy, their profession, etc, are assuming too much about the many buffoons who walk around government subsidized, tax incentive-laden corporations contributing little on a daily basis (I am not claiming you made these statements). I am in the private sector, and my wife is a teacher. I am not sure if my perspective means we are both buffoons, or that we can both spot them....Good teachers work as hard, if not harder than 365 day a year private sector employees. If you want to discuss looking at benefit costs and retirement differently for public sector employees I agree entirely (even though my wife would shoot me), because the impact of these costs have not been appropriately addressed by the public sector. But starting any debate on teachers salaries with the "you only work 10 months out of the year", and those "who can't do, teach" is inaccurrate and will never lead to a constructive compromise on the New York State residential tax burdens.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by anotherNYer

....Also where else are you guaranteed a job for life. NO WHERE, that infuriates people. I'm sick of hearing it's for protection. Wouldn't everyone like to be protected. ....The largest chunk of LI taxes are school taxes. Why can a private school educate a child for $5,000 and a public school needs over $10,000. Contrary to other posts, although some private schools are feeling the brunt of the economy, many have waiting lists. Teachers in private schools are just as dedicated and educated as public.

A few points on what I've highlighted from your posts:

You are guaranteed a "job for life", ie you won't get fired because the State has a bad year, if you are: Police, firefighter, and many other public sector employees, and in the case of NCPD and SCPD, you have nearly as many scheduled days off as a teacher, and ridiculous overtime rates if you work on those days. Job security a perk of being a public sector employee and a result of collective bargaining.

As for teachers not giving back to save a few jobs, in my wifes district, they did just that to keep pink slips from going into effect for those with less seniority, so that's an anecdote on both of our parts that doesn't cover all teachers in all districts.

As for the cost of education, a private school can pick and choose who their students are. Where do you think all the special ed kids go to school, St. Anthony's?

I'm not saying that pay increases shouldn't be stopped or benefits restructured, but again..facts.

As for the original poster, they won't have to worry about school taxes because they couldn't afford to buy a home here anyway on 75K.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

I whole heartedly agree that LI workers are well underpaid, but this is counteracted by the well paid NYC commuters.

The old saw that the Long Islander who works in Manhattan is bringing home bushels full of money and can pay "sky's the limit" property taxes needs to be retired because it is way out of date.

Just take into account the money that it takes to commute into Manhattan. One usually has to take the LIRR, probably the highest priced commuter rail in the nation, and since the LIRR only has 1 stop in Manhattan (unlike PATH for example which has several stops in Manhattan), the vast majority of commuters then have to pay full fare on the subway each way to and from work. For many people working in Manhattan who commute from LI (and many are not high flying professionals) this significantly lowers the profitability of the commute. Right now the fares are scheduled to increase again very soon. The person who lives on LI and works in Manhattan is hostage to it.

These days all NYC workers are feeling the squeeze too, including those who used to be considered untouchably secure. Take what used to be one of the most well paid and secure positions in NYC: a Biglaw corporate attorney. They used to (as little as 2 years ago) start fresh out of law school at $160K. Now these attorneys are finding no job fresh out of law school, finding themselves laid off and doing contract work for $25 an hour if they can get it, or finding themselves being bluntly told by their law firm that "your salary will be lowered by 10%, 20%, etc." This is happening all over Manhattan, not just to attorneys, but to the support staff that run the offices. If you don't believe me, look at this blog and read about all the layoffs, firm closings, outright lowering of salaries, no offers or rescinded offers to first years, etc., in Biglaw (Above the Law - A Legal Tabloid - News, Gossip, and Colorful Commentary on Law Firms and the Legal Profession). If Biglaw, including the white shoe and magic circle firms, is this bad when it used to be so lucrative and secure, you can imagine how the rest of the Manhattan workers are taking a beating.

So working in Manhattan is certainly not bringing in truckloads more money than working on LI these days.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by dman72

As for the original poster, they won't have to worry about school taxes because they couldn't afford to buy a home here anyway on 75K.

Ack! Another statement I find to be completely incorrect.

Renters (one caveat: who live in LEGAL apartments) ARE paying property taxes. They pay their rent to their landlord, who, as the owner of the building, submits the property taxes.

High property taxes affect renters because it directly affects what they can get for their dollar in terms of rental properties.

On this board several times I have seen posts from people who come from other areas and are appalled at what they are getting for their rental dollar because they are used to living in areas where they can get dishwashers, central air, pool, choice of carpet and drape colors, etc., in relatively new apartments at reasonable prices. Then they come here and they are totally blindsided. Although some of this has to do with the fact that we are an island without unlimited land, high taxes play a part because it just costs more for a landlord to maintain a building, so there are less extras that people in other parts of the country have gotten used to expecting and everything is old as the hills because it is not deemed profitable to tear down and build new apartments because the taxes are even more prohibitive on new structures.

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by anotherNYer

I am a teacher and I will say this. Most teachers have only taught. I earned my masters in education 10 years after I earned a business degree and worked in corporate America. the thing is being a teacher is exhausting, hard work. BUT it is 180 days a year with entitled sick days and personal days. When you have worked elsewhere you realize teaching is a rewarding, nice job with alot of breaks to rejuvinate yourself. .

There's no way around this fact. But the teachers, cops, county workers, etc, can keep arguing for themselves on this board till the cows come home. Pretty soon they will be the only ones left on Long Island anyway.

I hope the OP is enjoying this discussion.

[anotherNYer]

The private sector pensions and health plans are not subsidized by taxpayers directly. When you see your taxes go up and up every year and look at your school taxes it is incredible. What's more incredible is we keep passing budgets out of fear. In addition, there is definitely waste in all government/state jobs. However, a NYC firefighter or cop deserves a bit more than a teacher. Sorry but that is how I feel. They put themselves in harms way everyday. Would you run into a burning building or face a man/woman with a gun pointed at you? No comparison in my book between them and a teacher. Sure their are abuses on LI but everyone once in awhile a cop or firefighter is killed and I think that deserves some respect. Please do not argue the job for life. No where is that a guarantee, if being a teacher is sooooo demanding, why is it Impossible to get a job on LI. I know for a fact that there are hundreds if not thousands of applicants for every position. Trust me, kids with drug problems are not populating private High schools. That's an easy out, but I ask why can private schools educate a child for half what it costs the public school. And their are waiting lists to get in.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by anotherNYer

Trust me, kids with drug problems are not populating private High schools. That's an easy out, but I ask why can private schools educate a child for half what it costs the public school. And their are waiting lists to get in.

You just proved my point. I said that private schools can be picky about who they take in. Public schools have to deal with all the problems. that's part of why it costs more to run them.