Patterson cuts police compensation (home, bankruptcy, salary)

[jt in dale]

Paterson Vetoes N.Y. Police, Firefighter Pension Bill (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

I do not agree with Patterson on many issues, but three cheers to him for taking a step to end the ridiculous pensions enjoyed by the police and firefighters in NYS.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by jt in dale

Paterson Vetoes N.Y. Police, Firefighter Pension Bill (Update1) - Bloomberg.com

I do not agree with Patterson on many issues, but three cheers to him for taking a step to end the ridiculous pensions enjoyed by the police and firefighters in NYS.

Crooks

[bagpiper]

Pensions do have their purpose in police and fire fighting work in attracting and retaining personnel. The State and City have used the excuse of the pension for not paying a livable wage in the most expensive area of the country to live in.

The starting salaries of $25,000 in the NYPD/FDNY only a 2 years ago was near the poverty level (which is less then the 1986 starting salaries of $26,000). Thats roughly $950 of pre tax dollars before start deducting state, federal, city, pension contributions, and union dues.

There have been several years of no pay increases when the private sector saw steady pay increases on average but no one complained then.

The long hours, deplorable work conditions, lawsuits, personnel assaults, job related injuries, and threats terrorism make the work very undesirable and leads to early burn out. There are many who do not take these jobs due to the danger.

Pensions was often used as an excuse for not giving a raise. Contracts are typically settled 2-4 years after they expire and many gave a 0% raise. It has been funds of the pension system that paid for the workers raises over the years.

The unfortunate reality is that this type of work does have a negative effect on one's health. One person I know just passed away yesterday who retired only 3 years ago. This is not an exception but a well studied national statistic about the reduce longevity of that police and fire personnel. There are many rescue workers who are now victims of 9/11 who have died or suffering from heart, lung, cancer, thyroid, and other aliments.

Fiscal responsibility is fine, but the pension system must be balanced with salary and their current regulations. It is imperative to provide a fair wage throughout your career to attract and retain employees.

Today the pension system makes an easy target as the cause of our current problem. It has been the irresponsible government spending and over regulation is one of the real causes of our current financial mess.

Most pensions systems are solvent and well funded. The city and state governments have had to borrow money from the pension system, in which user contributions and prudent conservative investments kept the funds solvent. This the city and state from bankruptcy, increased taxes or lower bond ratings resulting in higher interests rates being paid on debt.

You will rarely see a call for the lifetime pensions and health care eliminated for elected officials who only serve one term.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by bagpiper

You will rarely see a call for the lifetime pensions and health care eliminated for elected officials who only serve one term.

I would call for that!

[jt in dale]

Originally Posted by bagpiper

Most pensions systems are solvent and well funded. The city and state governments have had to borrow money from the pension system, in which user contributions and prudent conservative investments kept the funds solvent. This the city and state from bankruptcy, increased taxes or lower bond ratings resulting in higher interests rates being paid on debt.

This statement is incorrect, pure and simple. Most pensions are underfunded, thanks to the economy.

Keep in mind, the pensions aren't going away. The new police officers and firefighters will now have to contribute to their pensions, just like everyone else!

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by jt in dale

This statement is incorrect, pure and simple. Most pensions are underfunded, thanks to the economy.

Keep in mind, the pensions aren't going away. The new police officers and firefighters will now have to contribute to their pensions, just like everyone else!

Supposedly the MTA fare hikes have a lot to do with their pension liabilities.

Another thing about these types of retirements is when somebody retires after only 20 years and gets 1/2 pay and then the dept. has to hire another person at full pay to replace them. It gets very expensive that way. Plus the retiree doesn't have to wait until a certain age to collect the money and is also free to take another full time job. Try and do that on social security. When people take the early age 62 SS they cannot earn more than a certain amount and their monthly amount is reduced drastically. Why are these pensions so very different? If you are retired after 20 years, you are supposed to be retired. Since they are still capable of working and most do, then perhaps the retirement time should be upped by at least a decade.

The on the job disability pension for police is generous ... 75% full pay tax free. I would agree with that for catastrophic injuries, but often people who go out on disability and get these pensions are perfectly capable of working again and do.

Yes, police and fire fighter are dangerous jobs, but certainly nothing like going to war is. The military gives way less than this to people who serve and are actually seriously hurt in battle.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by bagpiper

Pensions do have their purpose in police and fire fighting work in attracting and retaining personnel. The State and City have used the excuse of the pension for not paying a livable wage in the most expensive area of the country to live in.

The starting salaries of $25,000 in the NYPD/FDNY only a 2 years ago was near the poverty level (which is less then the 1986 starting salaries of $26,000). Thats roughly $950 of pre tax dollars before start deducting state, federal, city, pension contributions, and union dues.

There have been several years of no pay increases when the private sector saw steady pay increases on average but no one complained then.

The long hours, deplorable work conditions, lawsuits, personnel assaults, job related injuries, and threats terrorism make the work very undesirable and leads to early burn out. There are many who do not take these jobs due to the danger.

Pensions was often used as an excuse for not giving a raise. Contracts are typically settled 2-4 years after they expire and many gave a 0% raise. It has been funds of the pension system that paid for the workers raises over the years.

The unfortunate reality is that this type of work does have a negative effect on one's health. One person I know just passed away yesterday who retired only 3 years ago. This is not an exception but a well studied national statistic about the reduce longevity of that police and fire personnel. There are many rescue workers who are now victims of 9/11 who have died or suffering from heart, lung, cancer, thyroid, and other aliments.

Fiscal responsibility is fine, but the pension system must be balanced with salary and their current regulations. It is imperative to provide a fair wage throughout your career to attract and retain employees.

Today the pension system makes an easy target as the cause of our current problem. It has been the irresponsible government spending and over regulation is one of the real causes of our current financial mess.

Most pensions systems are solvent and well funded. The city and state governments have had to borrow money from the pension system, in which user contributions and prudent conservative investments kept the funds solvent. This the city and state from bankruptcy, increased taxes or lower bond ratings resulting in higher interests rates being paid on debt.

You will rarely see a call for the lifetime pensions and health care eliminated for elected officials who only serve one term.

Excellent post. You're spot on with your assessment (and apparent knowledge) of police pension issues.

Now wait for the fireworks.

[RiddleMeThis]

Originally Posted by bagpiper

There have been several years of no pay increases when the private sector saw steady pay increases on average but no one complained then.


.

\\
Why would anyone complain? I'm not funding pay increases for the private sector. And those of us who work in the private sector must fund our own retirements. The only thing we might get is a match on our 401(k), but we have to make the first contribution to get that.

Plus, pay raises in the private sector have not been anything to write home about nor are they guaranteed.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by RiddleMeThis

\\
Why would anyone complain? I'm not funding pay increases for the private sector. And those of us who work in the private sector must fund our own retirements. The only thing we might get is a match on our 401(k), but we have to make the first contribution to get that.

Plus, pay raises in the private sector have not been anything to write home about nor are they guaranteed.

Might is certainly the operative word here. If Social Security dies out by the time many of us who are not in the public sector get old, there will be problems.

[Burb]

Hats off to the governon for standing tall and having the courage of conviction to oppose lottery ticket pensions.

I agree that cops need to be paid a fair and living wage. This needs a hard look in certain counties (not here). Pay the cops a solid wage with good benefits and a pension built by contributions from the state and the individual retiree.

We need more leaders like this, kudos.