Jets Being Dumped on Western Nassau (Elmont, Franklin Square: stats, airports, design)

[Rachael84]

It's funny (well, kinda) how you guys are like 15 miles away from the airport, and I'm 10 blocks away from LGA and I never hear the planes lol. Something is wrong there.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen

Sure it's easy to dismiss an opinion and I don't take it personally but it doesn't change my viewpoint that if the airport was there first than a homeowner knew what he was getting. I asked a question such as what kind of deal did you get when you bought and didn't get an answer. It was harmless enough.

I wouldn't buy a home by the airport or general vicinity. I wouldn't purchase a home by a railroad track or station or a gun range or the LIE. Some of the immature responses are uncalled for. Some are upset about aircraft flying over their home and some of us aren't as sympathetic it is as simple as that. I would say bite the bullet and move...that is a statement in and of itself. Someone else will move into your home, get a good deal, than we can watch them complain about the noise.

For someone living in southwestern Nassau or southern Queens/JFK or northern Queens/LGA, sure I see what you are saying. However, maybe people in Garden City and Westbury were not expecting loud airplane traffic when they moved there because they are not adjacent to any of the airports.

[Peter B]

Nothing u can do except get used to it.

Originally Posted by ADNY007

What are we going to do as a community? We need to stand together and fight this. I am in Roslyn, 16 miles away and planes fly with their landing gear down.

[samyn on the green]

I commend you for actually researching this issue but you have the distances wrong. From the official aeronautical chart for the RWY 22L ILS the initial approach fix is ROSLY which is over Roslyn and it is exactly 12 miles from the runway. So Westbury is about 9 miles from the Runway and GC is about 5 miles out. The final decent on the glideslope starts 6.8 miles out and the glideslope is intercepted at 1800 feet above the ground. The decent angle on the glideslope is 3.0 degrees. There are several procedures for 22L arrivals that differ somewhat is approach course along with the parallel runway 22R which is a departure runway but does have some arrivals.


What you guys are not considering is how the JFK runway configuration does not operate in a vacuum. Within 25 miles is three of the most busy airports in the country if not the world. JFK arrivals from the west have to maintain altitude over NJ and the city as JFK arrivals have to operate above EWR/LGA arrivals and departures to avoid conflicting traffic. JFK uses the area above the Atlantic south of Long Island for much of its arrival traffic. Then the planes are vectored to their final approach course. It is a very complex operation and each airport in the area has its own small slice of the airspace to work with. ISP and HPN also have significant traffic and affect the way JFK traffic is

Due to the close proximity of these three extremely busy aerodromes runway 22 at JFK/LGA and EWR are the primary arrival runways in the summer for two reasons. Primo, the winds prevail from a advantageous direction for runway 22 arrivals. Second, when arrivals are on JFK 22 LGA there is not conflict with LGA RWY 22 arrivals and also EWR RWY 22 arrivals. So when the configuration is set the other airports have to be considered.

The proximity of LGA and EWR makes approaches to JFK RWY 13R/L tricky and the procedure is to fly above the Belt parkway over Brooklyn to skirt LGA airspace and make a hair pin turn just seconds from the runway for final decent. This runway requires really good weather and results in many missed approaches. There is no way that runway 22 can be restricted without a significant impact on delays to air traffic not only to JFK but to also LGA and EWR.


Someone said a ocean approach for runway 22? This is about as possible as oceanfront property in Arizona.

With runway 13R/31L closing soon for resurfacing and expansion, runway 22R/L is only going to see more use in the next year or two.

B

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Samyn,

Just for your reference, from me, runway 22L is almost 9 miles. At 3.1 degree angle, they plane should be well over 2,300 feet.

For John in Westbury, he's 12 miles away, at the 3.1 degree angle, the plane should be 3,400 feet in the air.

Clearly these planes are flying well below what they really need to be flying at.

[Johninwestbury]

Well here's a video of a 22L landing

YouTube - Approach and landing at JFK Airport

You can make out Jericho Quad at 1:53 and Roosevelt Field at 2:14

[Johninwestbury]

To Samyn...why not follow the LIE and Cross Island? The FAA suggested just that in their redesign.
I've seen the Canarsie approach to 13 videos...that is hairy for sure.

[samyn on the green]

Originally Posted by Johninwestbury

To Samyn...why not follow the LIE and Cross Island? The FAA suggested just that in their redesign.

From the West or from the east? I assume from the west to keep the traffic over the city. If you want JFK traffic following the LIE and then making a 125 degree banked turn for a runway 22 final approach at about 1000 feet with the throttles being let out and everything hanging down real dirty not only does that challenge every pilots airmanship but it penetrates LGA airspace. It also directly conflicts with LGA traffic taking off from runway 13. It would force LGA departures to take off from runway 31 with a tailwind and force a complex sequencing with LGA arrivals onto runway 22 as their missed approach course would be directly in conflict with JFK arrivals flying above the LIE on a new visual approach. It would be a major delay maker as the traffic from JFK and LGA is all clustered into one area with the airspace over LI sitting idle.

[juppiter]

Sorry, do LI people ever stop whining about how much NYC screws them?

Because, like.... most of y'all wouldn't have jobs without NYC.

And have you seriously never been a patron of an NYC airport?

And I'm not even pro-NYC... can't stand it there; my brother lives there and I make excuses not to visit him. But seriously. There are airports everywhere.... in the entire US (the country to the north and mostly west of you) and the entire world. This is not a valid complaint.

Also pissed because I thought this was about football.

[samyn on the green]

Tonight both runways 13/31 are closed. Winds are calm and departures are on 4L with arrivals on 4R. Departures will be heading out right over Western Nassau. This should be much louder than runway 22L arrivals.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by samyn on the green

Tonight both runways 13/31 are closed. Winds are calm and departures are on 4L with arrivals on 4R. Departures will be heading out right over Western Nassau. This should be much louder than runway 22L arrivals.

Haven't heard much of anything tonight, very quiet. The takeoffs are at a higher altitude (usually 10,000 feet or more) by the time they get over Westbury so I dont hear them.
Maybe azzuro will hear them more?