Jets Being Dumped on Western Nassau (Elmont, Franklin Square: place to live, centers, airplane)

[Johninwestbury]

It would be from the east, according to what I read in the redesign. They'd have to turn southwest before the Cross Island though.

Originally Posted by samyn on the green

From the West or from the east? I assume from the west to keep the traffic over the city. If you want JFK traffic following the LIE and then making a 125 degree banked turn for a runway 22 final approach at about 1000 feet with the throttles being let out and everything hanging down real dirty not only does that challenge every pilots airmanship but it penetrates LGA airspace. It also directly conflicts with LGA traffic taking off from runway 13. It would force LGA departures to take off from runway 31 with a tailwind and force a complex sequencing with LGA arrivals onto runway 22 as their missed approach course would be directly in conflict with JFK arrivals flying above the LIE on a new visual approach. It would be a major delay maker as the traffic from JFK and LGA is all clustered into one area with the airspace over LI sitting idle.

[samyn on the green]

Originally Posted by Johninwestbury

Haven't heard much of anything tonight, very quiet. The takeoffs are at a higher altitude (usually 10,000 feet or more) by the time they get over Westbury so I dont hear them.
Maybe azzuro will hear them more?

0100 local is a slow time for departures, maybe one every six minutes. Just in the last ten minutes an Asiana 777 flew right over Westbury at 9000 feet bound for Inchon Korea and a Comair CRJ flew over at 7500 feet bound for Vermont.

[samyn on the green]

Originally Posted by Johninwestbury

It would be from the east, according to what I read in the redesign. They'd have to turn southwest before the Cross Island though.

JFK has this approach already for many years. It is used at times but is is a visual approach with high minimums and must be hand flow rather than auto pilot flown. Does this help with noise?

[sean sean sean sean]

Something really cool I just noticed about this website....it'll give you a list of every type of aircraft in flight over the United States at any given moment. Right now, over the skies of Honolulu...a 1917 Short Type 320 (a British torpedo bomber flown in the first World War) is probably pissing off some native Hawaiians.

[azzurrony]

Samyn,

I appreciate your feedback, but I can't seem to open your PDF's. I'm not sure where those distances are coming from. From every mapping software I've used, I'm about 8.5 miles away from the front of 22L and Westbury is pretty much 12 miles away. There is no way GC is 5 miles from JFK. Impossible. I'm not sure what they are using to measure.

Samyn....last night there was no noise. I MUCH prefer departures over Long Island rather than arrivals. Departures are so high in the air by the time they pass a majority of the Island that you barely hear them.

Samyn...the Belmont Visual approach is the WORST of them all. This is the approach that is victimizing towns like Westbury, Carle Place, GC, and Franklin Square. Under this approach pilots are supposed to be flying a bit more to the West than they normally do. They should be flying over Merillon Ave. and then intersecting Covert Ave and Stewart Ave. before finally making a slight left turn 1600 feet before Belmont.

None of the pilots seem to follow this procedure. Instead they fly much closer to Stewart Ave/Nassau Blvd, over the GC Country Club, over Franklin Sq. and then near Elmont take a late turn into 22L. Makes no sense to me why they do that other than to avoid getting closer to Belmont.

[azzurrony]

I personally would love to see an approach to 22L that was the following:

1. Hug the Northern State
2. Proceed over Jericho Turnpike if you have to
3. Try to follow the Cross Island down to Laurelton Pkwy just before 22L

This would require a bit more of a sharp turn around Bellerose but frankly the planes I've seen are doing that all the time now anyway. This would keep planes away from residential neighborhoods and reduce noise.

The other alternative would be to follow the LIE and turn down before the Cross Island as John said. It shouldn't interfere with LGA airspace and you could angle the turn over Belmont park to make it less severe. If the Airspace Redesign actually supports that route, then I'm all for it.

Another factor we haven't considered here yet is that the jets are purposely avoiding Belmont Park. We don't want to disturb the racing or horses there

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Samyn,

I appreciate your feedback, but I can't seem to open your PDF's. I'm not sure where those distances are coming from. From every mapping software I've used, I'm about 8.5 miles away from the front of 22L and Westbury is pretty much 12 miles away. There is no way GC is 5 miles from JFK. Impossible. I'm not sure what they are using to measure.

From the end of the runway to the SW corner of GC is 5.8 miles....but Garden City is a pretty big place. Is it possible that the distance is measured from the beginning of the "visual approach" (I dunno if I'm using the right term here) but basically the lights that run through Brookville Park?

Are there not very densely packed residential areas along the Cross Island Parkway, Jericho Turnpike & Northern State? I dunno how that would solve the "problem"...

[azzurrony]

Sean,

The path covered on the visual approach to JFK is not a straight line from GC to the runway. It's a straight line to east of Belmont Park and then a curve before straightening out to the runway. Obviously, a curved line will be a greater distance than a straight one. Even assuming a straight line, I'm still 8 miles from my house to the front of the 22L runway. So, I'm still confused what they are measuring.

As for my route, there are 2 things to consider:

1. The planes already fly over Jericho Turnpike. Nothing new there. There is less of a residential impact flying over a busy road than there is through the heart of a residential neighborhood.

2. I'm not arguing that this route be used every single time. I'm saying that this alternative should be used to mitigate the noise that is currently only being absorbed by specific neighborhoods in 2 different approach paths.

[Johninwestbury]

Been very bad here in Westbury tonight, constantly every 2 min or so, sometimes more often. Turning right over my house.
Very little variation. Awhile ago they were going further north toward Rt.25A and then flying over some FAA towers in East Hills at times, now it seems everything is going over or near Westbury. Been very bad tonight.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by juppiter

Sorry, do LI people ever stop whining about how much NYC screws them?

Because, like.... most of y'all wouldn't have jobs without NYC.

And have you seriously never been a patron of an NYC airport?

And I'm not even pro-NYC... can't stand it there; my brother lives there and I make excuses not to visit him. But seriously. There are airports everywhere.... in the entire US (the country to the north and mostly west of you) and the entire world. This is not a valid complaint.

Also pissed because I thought this was about football.

Sorry, do upstate people ever stop butting in on LI QOL issues which they are unfamiliar with?

2007 (Latest FAA stats I could find) JFK & LGA were 12 & 18th busiest international airports, respectively, in the USA. That translates into an awful lot of air traffic and noise overhead.

And yes, I initially thought this was about football, too!