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There was just a CBS news report about the very issue discussed on this thread. I found the above link on the wcbstv.com website, but not the actual video report.
I'm telling you...its about to get a whole lot worse. Anyone know where to get jet fuel resistant soundproofing?
We have covered this topic so many times. Planes have been using the same approach over Nassau to RWY 22L for at least 40 years as I remember planes over Westbury when I used to go out there in the early 1980s. These planes have been over your houses long before you lived there. Nothing has changed since JFK was called Idlewild. Pretending that these approaches are new means you are new to the area or are not paying attention. The only new approach in the area is a approach to LGA runway 31 that routes over the LI sound south then over western Nassau and west into the LGA RWY 31 near Shea. The LGA approach is never used when approaches to JFK RWY 22L are active. You guys are posting about the approach to RWY 22L which is over LI.
I understand that people are just venting but this this information has been posted at least three other times. When planes land they fly into the wind, the approach to the runway is not a random selection but is entirely based on winds. If they land with a tail wind they drop out of the sky and need to fly faster to maintain lift. Tail wind landings result in touchdowns at a faster speed and a greater chance for an accident. People are not going to die in fiery airplane crashes so you can watch Wheel of Fortune in silence. It is always preferable to land with a headwind. With the prevailing winds out of the south in the Afternoon and evening at JFK during the summer RWY 22L is going to be and has always been used. It is just not feasible to risk peoples lives landing with a tailwind to accommodate quiet BBQ's and people watching Oprah.
The approach to RWY 22L is what is called an RNAV approach. That means it is specific published approach that is programed into the airplane computers. If every plane was making random turns right and left to spread noise among different neighborhoods it would complicate the very complicated skies even more further compromising safety. With standardized published approaches airplanes can maintain separation because the pilots can know ahead of time where to go and the airplane computer knows where to go as they make the same turns every time they land at JFK RWY 22L. In addition the plane in back of them is also is in line making the same precise turns. Standardized RNAV approaches helps aid airplane separation and helps reduced pilot workload so they can focus on landing and not worrying about John In Westbury standing at the bus stop. This also means that every plane generally flys over the same exact spot as every other approaching plane. Planes are not being dumped over your house this is safety in action.
GQ published an informative article about the stresses of being an ATC controller in the NY area. Read the article and see how difficult it is to manage air traffic in the most busy air corridor in the world. Within a 100 miles of JFK is PHL,WRI, EWR, LGA, HPN, SWF, ISP, HTO, HVN, TEB and FRG all airports with significant traffic that needs to be separated. It is a multi-layered area that is divided into narrow corridors and each airport has its narrow to corridor to work with. If these corridors are breached something like this happens.
If the wind is a factor how come those runways (22L) were being used yesterday evening when winds were from the north?
A week ago, Saturday, under sunny skies and NW winds, I saw the same routing being used.
It seems to be done regardless of wind.
If the wind is a factor how come those runways (22L) were being used yesterday evening when winds were from the north?
A week ago, Saturday, under sunny skies and NW winds, I saw the same routing being used.
It seems to be done regardless of wind.
JFK (all airports really) has specific wind criteria that drive the configuration...but the wind speed usually needs to be 10 mph or greater. Yesterday there was a wind shift due to outflow from thunderstorms over CT...so they did change runway configurations due to that.
When the winds are less than 10 mph...22L/R are used because it is the primary ILS runway. So you are mostly right...that they choose a configuration based on demand and not necessarily the wind.
Also...individual pilots can "refuse" a recommended or current configuration (they mostly do this to avoid landing in a tailwind). If enough pilots refuse a configuration, the airport if forced to change to meet demand (or the delays start to pile up).
Complaining, campaigning, whatever. Unfortunately, you will not be able to get the FAA to change flight approaches. The airspace over metro NY is too crowded for any large scale change. The noise is just something you'll have to get used to
Quote:
Originally Posted by azzurrony
I'm about to begin a big campaign against the abuse of the FAA and Port Authority against residents of Western Nassau County.
Through a lot of research and study of flight patterns I've been able to gather that the FAA is allowing the same VISUAL approach to runway 22L every single time. Essentially, the same neighborhoods in Westbury, Garden City Park, Garden City, and Franklin Square are getting plane noise dumped on them when the weather is at its BEST.
So, on clear days the big jumbo jets come in at about 1,900 feet. The problem is that there is no deviation in their vector (or flight path). If they were to come in on approaches that varied 1/4 mile here and there, it would help so much.
You might think that they can't deviate...but the fact is on this approach they have to make a hard swing to the left just to land at 22L...so this visual isn't done for approach angle.
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Here is a YOUTUBE video giving you a sample of these planes over our neighborhoods. The noise in the video doesn't do it justice. It's much louder in person and sounds like a WW2 raid.
We need to stand up and fight this and I'm recruiting others on here to help.
Macarthur Airport is one of the best airports I have ever been to. It's fast, efficient, and the workers are courteous. I use it whenever I can for travel. I hope they make it larger. Not trying to be an agitator but the airport has been around since 1942 during wwII and was used by the Army air corps. The first commercial use was in 1960. Anyone living around the airport knew it was there and bought a house anyway.
It always amuses me when someone moves by an airport, Military Base, shooting range, park, mall, etc knowing full well it is there then want to form a petition to shut it down.
At least the airport hasn't tried to flex its muscle and use eminent domain yet to expand.
We have covered this topic so many times. Planes have been using the same approach over Nassau to RWY 22L for at least 40 years as I remember planes over Westbury when I used to go out there in the early 1980s. These planes have been over your houses long before you lived there. Nothing has changed since JFK was called Idlewild. Pretending that these approaches are new means you are new to the area or are not paying attention. The only new approach in the area is a approach to LGA runway 31 that routes over the LI sound south then over western Nassau and west into the LGA RWY 31 near Shea. The LGA approach is never used when approaches to JFK RWY 22L are active. You guys are posting about the approach to RWY 22L which is over LI.
I understand that people are just venting but this this information has been posted at least three other times. When planes land they fly into the wind, the approach to the runway is not a random selection but is entirely based on winds. If they land with a tail wind they drop out of the sky and need to fly faster to maintain lift. Tail wind landings result in touchdowns at a faster speed and a greater chance for an accident. People are not going to die in fiery airplane crashes so you can watch Wheel of Fortune in silence. It is always preferable to land with a headwind. With the prevailing winds out of the south in the Afternoon and evening at JFK during the summer RWY 22L is going to be and has always been used. It is just not feasible to risk peoples lives landing with a tailwind to accommodate quiet BBQ's and people watching Oprah.
The approach to RWY 22L is what is called an RNAV approach. That means it is specific published approach that is programed into the airplane computers. If every plane was making random turns right and left to spread noise among different neighborhoods it would complicate the very complicated skies even more further compromising safety. With standardized published approaches airplanes can maintain separation because the pilots can know ahead of time where to go and the airplane computer knows where to go as they make the same turns every time they land at JFK RWY 22L. In addition the plane in back of them is also is in line making the same precise turns. Standardized RNAV approaches helps aid airplane separation and helps reduced pilot workload so they can focus on landing and not worrying about John In Westbury standing at the bus stop. This also means that every plane generally flys over the same exact spot as every other approaching plane. Planes are not being dumped over your house this is safety in action.
GQ published an informative article about the stresses of being an ATC controller in the NY area. Read the article and see how difficult it is to manage air traffic in the most busy air corridor in the world. Within a 100 miles of JFK is PHL,WRI, EWR, LGA, HPN, SWF, ISP, HTO, HVN, TEB and FRG all airports with significant traffic that needs to be separated. It is a multi-layered area that is divided into narrow corridors and each airport has its narrow to corridor to work with. If these corridors are breached something like this happens.
Thanks for posting this info (Again!), samyn.....though personally I've given up trying to talk common sense on these kinds of threads. Even if the FAA sent out a representative, a pilot and an aeronautical engineer to each of these folks' homes to explain the matter, even if we got them to digest a mountain of statistics, read books on physics, research plane crashes over the last 50 years.....even if we got a time machine and sent them all back in time to prove that there has always* been tons of air traffic over Long Island (aka "The Cradle of Aviation"), I seriously doubt it would do any good.
The motto of the LI Forum should be "NEVER LET THE FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR OPINION". In fact, is there some way we can get a banner right on top of the index page, proudly announcing that mission statement for all the world to see?
*= Since 1903 at least. I'm sure someone would have pointed out that airplanes weren't invented until the 20th century.
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Welcome to City-Data.com forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with 700,000 other registered members. User profiles and some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your free account you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 15,000 posts/day about local topics and you will see fewer ads. 
From the horse's mouth
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