Stop letting your kids drive fast cars (Lima, Plymouth: purchases, maintenance)

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by Egobop

How would you be safer without the bigger vehicles on the parkway? It would be safer for motorcyclists if they were the only ones allowed on the parkway. Maybe they should ban cars from the parkways as well. Oh wait; you personally own a car so it would be safer for you if they banned the motorcycles from the parkway. Hey, I got it; only allow whatever type of vehicle that you actually drive on the parkway. It would be safer for you. Where does it end?

It clearly was safer prior to the advent of the SUV / Hummer explosion lifestyle on LI. This is evidenced by the governments crash test standard revamping a few years back. Original crash test standards were based on normal passenger vehicle collisions, but they were revised to include collisions with higher riding vehicles and many cars and other vehicles that had passed previously now had dismal results. From a simple physics standpoint, heavier vehicles will be carrying more energy and result in more damage in accidents that are unpreventable and would occur no matter what the drivers vehicle was.

If nothing else, registration fees should be drastically altered to impose a much higher tax based on weight as they produce a heavier toll on the roadways. Additionally fees could be rated based on gas mileage to encourage less consumption of fossil fuels, with exemptions for small business necessities. If it was restrictive enough, many might reconsider the purchase.

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

It clearly was safer prior to the advent of the SUV / Hummer explosion lifestyle on LI. This is evidenced by the governments crash test standard revamping a few years back. Original crash test standards were based on normal passenger vehicle collisions, but they were revised to include collisions with higher riding vehicles and many cars and other vehicles that had passed previously now had dismal results. From a simple physics standpoint, heavier vehicles will be carrying more energy and result in more damage in accidents that are unpreventable and would occur no matter what the drivers vehicle was.

If nothing else, registration fees should be drastically altered to impose a much higher tax based on weight as they produce a heavier toll on the roadways. Additionally fees could be rated based on gas mileage to encourage less consumption of fossil fuels, with exemptions for small business necessities. If it was restrictive enough, many might reconsider the purchase.

Registration is higher, added fees is not the answer.

How many accidents have you had with a suv?

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by LIMA

Registration is higher, added fees is not the answer.

How many accidents have you had with a suv?

Accidents with an suv, what does that matter?

Higher weight has a larger negative effect on roadways and is more dangerous in collisions with smaller vehicles that may become even more common with new govt restrictions on mpg ratings ... registration fees are higher but by a small amount, they should be much higher. People did without SUV's for many years, for some reason they are now necessities for many, its a joke.

[LIMA]

Why the change then... Where is your proof they (pick ups and SUV's) do more damage (becareful here i have proof and can show you, dick amper is still not willing to see it either)

I have a pu in a very thin not street like but it is a black top driveway, not concrete...it hasn't done any damage. (in fact i parked a customers 379 Peterbilt in my driveway, with trailer several times...no damage)
I have 100 acres where i have done testing on the enviros BS claims...for years using Jeeps, pick up, cars, atv's, & real trucks.

Real big trucks such as the real commercial trucks do slight damage over time to black top, mostly when in traffic on hot days and usually it is the loaded heavier vehicles that force the black top to make a track because there sitting there like steam roller.

You know why we have black top.... because concrete doesn't need nearly the same maintenance and doesn't make work every 10 years or less like black top does.

The VanWyck is perfect under the black top, still to this very day even after all the years it was in use before it was covered


How many accidents have you had with a suv to warrant change?


A jeep weighs the same as a midsize car, as a matter of fact the jeep and many other suv's weigh the same as quite a few performance cars, other similar suv's other then range rover and 1 of the benz are heavier.

(American) Cars are all getting heavier because the govt wants them to save you when you drive head on or slide into a immoveable object...
You shouldn't be driving head on or sliding into... that is a issue that is related to the DRIVER and his/her ability to DRIVE

P/U's aren't all 7000 lbs, the dually crew cab diesels are right at 7000 to 7800.. But last i seen even yesterday they are not the common vehicle of choice.

So if you are truly worried about heavy vehicles....then don't pull out of a shopping center on a 50 mph road in less then 800 ft in front of one or at the very least if you do floor it and get up to speed faster.... Though with proper driver training the weight of that vehicle makes no matter in the world, since you have been taught propperly how to safely pull into traffic... (see the problem) .

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by LIMA

Why the change then... Where is your proof they (pick ups and SUV's) do more damage

you wrote way too much and it was hard to follow.

Take a 2500 lb vehicle traveling at 50 mph and a 7500 lb vehicle traveling at 50 mph. The heaver car has 3x the kinetic energy which needs to be dissipated to stop the car. In a wheels locked sliding stop it will need 3x the stopping the distance and in a collision with a stationary railroad car 3x the energy will be dissipated into the vehicle. There is no refuting that. Have the two vehicles crash into each other, it is far better if they were both less massive than if the small vehicle hit the 7500 lb vehicle. As to the total damage to the vehicle itself if crashing into a tree, that doesn't seem all that relevant, more damage to the car means less impact force as the increase time over which the stopping impulse is applied reduces the stopping force. Small cars are built with crumple zones designed to destroy the car and absorb the energy of the collision. By the way, pickups are the least safe and have the highest rate of highway fatality due to rollover.

MYTH: Lighter cars are less safe than heavier vehicles - ORNL Review Vol. 41, No. 3, 2008

=====
Here is a study done by the Arizona state department of transportation showing that of the commercial vehicles, 75% of the cost to the roadways came from the heaviest. It estimates a 20% excess in damage of overweight trucks compared to those under the limit.

http://www.azdot.gov/TPD/ATRC/public.../PDF/528RN.pdf

You will see lighter cars in upcoming years not heavier ones. Cars will have to be made lighter to meet new emissions standards in the upcoming years.

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

you wrote way too much and it was hard to follow.

Take a 2500 lb vehicle traveling at 50 mph and a 7500 lb vehicle traveling at 50 mph. The heaver car has 3x the kinetic energy which needs to be dissipated to stop the car.

By the way, pickups are the least safe and have the highest rate of highway fatality due to rollover.

MYTH: Lighter cars are less safe than heavier vehicles - ORNL Review Vol. 41, No. 3, 2008

=====
Here is a study done by the Arizona state department of transportation showing that of the commercial vehicles, 75% of the cost to the roadways came from the heaviest. It estimates a 20% excess in damage of overweight trucks compared to those under the limit.

http://www.azdot.gov/TPD/ATRC/public.../PDF/528RN.pdf

You will see lighter cars in upcoming years not heavier ones. Cars will have to be made lighter to meet new emissions standards in the upcoming years.

Now you are talking about crash tech vs weight, not road damage...

A suv or p/u does not do any road damage, they are not heavy enough to do road damage.
Comm trucks pay a huge amount of road taxes, reg taxes, fuel and HUT taxes, more then i see as fair, so saying there not paying for it is total BS.

Our govt is out of control and mis-using it's taxing for god only knows what

As for emmissions making vehicles lighter.... as of today American cars only! need to pass certain restrictions for crash testing...
American cars use more plastic and polyurethane and even aluminum parts then ever before...

Yet a performance car of the earlier years without all the awesome light stuff was around 3500 lbs, today it's 4400 lbs. (remove the alum block heads and other wonderful stuff and they'll be another 500 lbs heavier)

I don't see how that is getting lighter, that is heavier so it can save you when you drive into a wall..it needs more crush built into it, needs more panels and crumple zones.
Zones can't crumple unless there engineered with more material to crumple and slow accordingly...

Using that 1st link you had comparing this discussion to a race vehicle using carbon fiber....
I would by a all carbon fiber dodge viper or challenger tomorrow if it didn't cost $600,000.
I would love to own a all carbon fiber p/u, it'll probably only cost $900,000.

If a new driveshaft costs $300 in steel and $900 in carbon fiber what do you think a entire car would cost?
A new steel hood is $150 a fiberglass hood is $350 a carbon fiber hood is $975

Again, it is all on the driver......

I have never rolled a p/u, a dump truck, a dump trailer, a car , or a jeep.. I happen to race a Jeep...

I was behind a imbecile that rolled over a chevy impala on the SSP because he wasn't driving....instead he was to caught up in trying to hear or be involved with what the State Trooper might have been saying to the driver he pulled over.....drifted to the left and hit the curb and away he went to putting the car shiny side down.... (non driver, public transportation runner up) He also got to talk with the ST

That's the cars fault?
Oh no it's the curbs fault?
Oh wait, it's the ST's fault and his patrol cars cool lights?

Oh absolutely not! it is the fault of the retarded fool who couldn't mind his damned business and then cause me to slow down so he could see or try to hear what the officer was saying and then roll his vehicle over and then cause me to stop and see if the dumbass is ok and waste my time further.....and cause other people major delays

Because he wasn't driving... because he didn't know how to recover the vehicle, because he was not taught.
Every accident is because someone wasn't doing what they should be, not weight or anything else.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by LIMA

A suv or p/u does not do any road damage, they are not heavy enough to do road damage.

All vehicles cause road damage. Roadways flex under applied loads which cause tensile forces in the asphalt layer as well as substrates below. The heavier the vehicles, the larger this cumulative effect will be, though weather has a much more damaging effect.

Originally Posted by LIMA

I don't see how that is getting lighter, that is heavier so it can save you when you drive into a wall..it needs more crush built into it, needs more panels and crumple zones.
Zones can't crumple unless there engineered with more material to crumple and slow accordingly...

Anyhow. You don't need massively heavy cars for crumple zones, its just needs to be engineered properly, look at the smart car it only weighs 1600 lbs. Heavier cars are largely better because they are bigger and have longer crumple zones and when you match heavier cars up against lighter cars obviously the heavier ones fare better in head on collisions, but if all cars are made lighter that aspect is reduced.

But that is not what I was getting at anyhow, to meet new standards, manufacturers will basically be forced to make lighter vehicles.

Auto fleet of future will be lighter, more efficient | Topeka Capital-Journal, The | Find Articles at BNET

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

Accidents with an suv, what does that matter?

Higher weight has a larger negative effect on roadways and is more dangerous in collisions with smaller vehicles that may become even more common with new govt restrictions on mpg ratings ... registration fees are higher but by a small amount, they should be much higher. People did without SUV's for many years, for some reason they are now necessities for many, its a joke.

People did without motor vehicles for quite some time as well. Maybe we should all have to give up our vehicles and ride horses, bicycles or walk.

If you have read previous posts I have written you would have seen that I stated that my Excursion averages 24 miles per gallon with the 7.3 diesel engine. This is better than many lighter passenger vehicles.

I also have three children that live with me full time and one child from a previous marriage. I have owned a mini van in the past and they simply are not as roomy as my Excursion. Perhaps we should start regulating how many children people can have so that they can fit into smaller cars?

Just because you have no reason to own a large truck does not mean that other people should not be allowed to own them. I tow cars on my trailer with my Excursion and smaller vehicles would not be able to handle the weight I tow safely. As LIMA said, I already do pay more in registration fees and when I tow I can't go on the parkways since you are not allowed to tow a trailer on them anyway.

As LIMA also had mentioned, the majority of SUVs such as Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer, Ford Escape, Buick Rendezvous, Dodge Durango, etc., weigh the same as the typical passenger car. Heavy duty pick ups are already not allowed on parkways even with four doors so we should not even be discussing them. Basically, the only SUVs you would be banning from the parkways would be Chevrolet Suburbans, their other GM counterparts and the Ford Excursion which they do not even make any longer.

Cars such as that little go-kart Smart or the Honda Fit are great for single people with no family but once you have more than two children they are not practical. I am not saying you need an SUV at that point but you definitely will need something bigger than a Honda Civic especially as the children get older.

[LIMA]

No actually what you will see is a further failing economy, even worse then you have now.

Since this will drive costs out of peoples reach and only force them to play more with older vehicles.... not subject to insane rules where govt once again jumped without 1st looking into consequences.


You can't make a car need to hit a immoveable object faster without killing the occupants inside without adding more structure to slow the crush, You can make it lighter and it'll crush faster entombing the occupants, not using exotic million dollar materials.

The problem is imbeciles in govt with no knowledge of anything making rules..
You can have lighter cars hit immoveable objects at 30 mph and keep you alive, but you can't keep upping the game and make them do it at 50 and 60... it doesn't work

Remember it needs to crush somewhat and not intrude into the passenger compartment and also not transfer the load of the stop to the body...
That is easier said then done, it is not easy, and can't be done just reducing weight.

The smart car was designed for super crowded small city street areas... not L.I. on roads with speeds above 30 mph..
So if you buy the smart car to use around lower manhattan, you're using your head, if you buy it and use in on L.I. that is pretty stupid, especially if its safety you're worried about, that smart car is a hazard.
1. it isn't 1600 lbs , because that is before it gets to the US and air bags are added among a few other things making it just a touch under 1900lbs...
So having a slow small car in an area where the speeds are 55mph, on almost every street you might be using is a car of concern when it takes 13 seconds to get to 60...
Loaded trucks are faster then that...
It isn't designed for crashing at higher speeds....

It won't take much for the front bumper of another car to invade that cars passenger compartment with it's poly/plastic doors... So even if you don't die you can be guaranteed some hospital stay....remember it's a smart car for use where designed

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by Egobop

Cars such as that little go-kart Smart or the Honda Fit are great for single people with no family but once you have more than two children they are not practical. I am not saying you need an SUV at that point but you definitely will need something bigger than a Honda Civic especially as the children get older.

Exactly, i would love to own a car for every single different situation i need...

1 Neon for back and fourth to work

1 P/U for the upstate vacations with the kids and dogs

1 Jeep for the snowy days, or going to dinner

1 F-1 car for sunday morning jousts......ah sob they'll never sell one....ok 1 Viper coupe for sunday morning cruises..

Unfortunatley that isn't reality and I unfortunately don't have the monetary backing to do it... So im stuck with BS rules