Stop letting your kids drive fast cars (Lima, Plymouth: limo, tax)

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by LIMA

Exactly, i would love to own a car for every single different situation i need...

1 Neon for back and fourth to work

1 P/U for the upstate vacations with the kids and dogs

1 Jeep for the snowy days, or going to dinner

1 F-1 car for sunday morning jousts......ah sob they'll never sell one....ok 1 Viper coupe for sunday morning cruises..

Unfortunatley that isn't reality and I unfortunately don't have the monetary backing to do it... So im stuck with BS rules

The thing that really gets to me is the way a lot of people decide that just because they have no use for something; for instance a pick up truck, that nobody has a use for it and it should be regulated or banned all together. It really makes no sense to me.

It also makes no sense as to how my owning an Excursion makes the roadway not as safe for someone else driving. If we are both obeying the same traffic rules there is no problem. If I am following the rules of the road what difference does it make if I am driving an Excursion or a Honda Civic? If someone is not following the rules of the road are they any less dangerous to other people whether they are driving a Honda Civic or an Excursion?

[djdairyp]

You live in a country of ever increasing regulations like it or not. Many of which are designed to protect fellow citizens, potentially infringing upon what you may believe are your rights to do whatever you feel like. Just because you can't see how something exists or should exist doesn't make it ridiculous.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by LIMA

No actually what you will see is a further failing economy, even worse then you have now.

Regulations on the US auto industry are not going to drive it nor the economy under. The economy is not fueled by the automotive industry.

The US auto industry can sink itself with or without regulations and did, and its a dead duck. They have been losing market share for years and consumer opinion is that they would rather buy more reliable non-US cars.

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

You live in a country of ever increasing regulations like it or not. Many of which are designed to protect fellow citizens, potentially infringing upon what you may believe are your rights to do whatever you feel like. Just because you can't see how something exists or should exist doesn't make it ridiculous.

Thinking such as this will be the downfall of this country. You still have not told me how you are any less safer on the road if both of us are following the rules of the road while I am driving my Excursion.

Do you even see how although you might not need a large vehicle, other people might?

I also do not remember saying I have a right to do anything I want. I do believe I have the right to buy and drive a vehicle that you may not find necessary but I do. There are a lot of vehicles I would not buy but I would never try to impose my will upon those whom do want to buy and drive them.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by Egobop

Thinking such as this will be the downfall of this country. You still have not told me how you are any less safer on the road if both of us are following the rules of the road while I am driving my Excursion.

Do you even see how although you might not need a large vehicle, other people might?

I never said ban large vehicles, I simply said people should be encouraged not to buy them. Not only is their carbon footprint much larger in terms of overall fuel consumption but raw materials as well, but they do decrease the safety on roadways. If there is a legitimate business need for a large vehicle, that is understandable, but large families all over the country and all over the world do fine without such purchases, they are simply conveniences that have become too popular.

The fact that you can't understand that the road is less safe with large vehicles on it defies all logic and is baffling. For some reason you think that if you are a safe driver you are immune to accidents. Your tire could fall off (sounds ridiculous, I know someone it happened to), a drunk driver could careen over the median and smash into you, all sorts of crazy unavoidable things can happen and when accidents in such cases happen, larger vehicles have much larger impacts on smaller vehicles. If all vehicles were restrained to similar weight restrictions it would benefit the safety of all. I am not saying ban these vehicles, but the less of these vehicles on the road, the safer everyone else is and its a shared roadway.

[hotkarl]

There is some validity to this.
Larger vehicles do not handle as well as smaller vehicles, specifically, a car compared to an SUV. Larger vehicles/SUV's are more prone to flipping over as well.
In the hands of an inexperienced, or plain old crappy driver, SUV's are definitely more of a safety hazzard on the roadways.

So, if you're plowing down the highway at like 65 or 70, and a dump truck or other utility/commercial vehicle loses something off of it while driving like debris or a tool, you stand a greater risk of an accident by trying to swerve and avoid said object.

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

Regulations on the US auto industry are not going to drive it nor the economy under. The economy is not fueled by the automotive industry.

The US auto industry can sink itself with or without regulations and did, and its a dead duck. They have been losing market share for years and consumer opinion is that they would rather buy more reliable non-US cars.

One other thing you forget to mention is how much of the American car company's troubles come from the union contracts. This has a lot to do with it.

Ford is not doing as poorly as the other two. The truck market is a big reason for this.

I do agree that the public opinion is that they feel that the foreign cars are more reliable. This used to be true but I have read a number of articles in auto magazines that say this does not hold true any longer. According to them, the Hondas and Toyotas have had many more recalls in the last few years than Fords.

I actively work on a number of different vehicles and from what I have seen the Mitsubishi vehicles have numerous problems. It figures that Chrysler made that the company they decided to team up with for some time.

I had a 2003 Honda Civic and kept it until it had around 60,000 miles on it. I never had any non-maintenance work that I had to do to it.

I bought my 2001 Excursion with 80,000 miles on it. It now has 160,000. I have only had to change the water pump, starter and a cam sensor since I have owned it. It has been excellent for me.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by Egobop

One other thing you forget to mention is how much of the American car company's troubles come from the union contracts. This has a lot to do with it.

No doubt, another reason why they US auto industry is a dead duck, that bailout money was a complete waste. Hondas, Toyotas etc .... vehicles are largely produced in the US, greater than 50% in most cases (How American is that car? - USATODAY.com). As far as I know the workers in these factories are non unionized and this has helped the car manufactors not suffer as greatly. Another thing I will never understand is why they dont increase production dramatically on hybrids. The demand for them was very great, so much that people would pay more than sticker, so I dont see why the company would not pump up production and sell like crazy. The same thing goes for things like the Ninetndo Wii. You couldnt even buy that thing for like the first two years because it was gone everywhere, why dont they just make a ton of them and sell them all ... more money is made selling the games for the systems anyhow.

Originally Posted by Egobop

I do agree that the public opinion is that they feel that the foreign cars are more reliable. This used to be true but I have read a number of articles in auto magazines that say this does not hold true any longer. According to them, the Hondas and Toyotas have had many more recalls in the last few years than Fords.

I have read articles on this as well but have yet to see it substantiated. Every year when you look at consumer reports car reliability history which lists numbers of reported problems for vehicle types, US cars still perform poorly in comparison though there are exceptions to this.

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

I never said ban large vehicles, I simply said people should be encouraged not to buy them. Not only is their carbon footprint much larger in terms of overall fuel consumption but raw materials as well, but they do decrease the safety on roadways. If there is a legitimate business need for a large vehicle, that is understandable, but large families all over the country and all over the world do fine without such purchases, they are simply conveniences that have become too popular.

The fact that you can't understand that the road is less safe with large vehicles on it defies all logic and is baffling. For some reason you think that if you are a safe driver you are immune to accidents. Your tire could fall off (sounds ridiculous, I know someone it happened to), a drunk driver could careen over the median and smash into you, all sorts of crazy unavoidable things can happen and when accidents in such cases happen, larger vehicles have much larger impacts on smaller vehicles. If all vehicles were restrained to similar weight restrictions it would benefit the safety of all. I am not saying ban these vehicles, but the less of these vehicles on the road, the safer everyone else is and its a shared roadway.

I just want to make a few points here.

I have stated that my Excursion has a diesel engine and that it averages 24 miles per gallon consistently. This should end the fuel consumption debate. I owned a 1994 Plymouth Voyager mini van with a six cylinder gasoline engine and I averaged around 16 miles per gallon.

I also mentioned that I tow with my trailer. I have a 24 foot equipment trailer that weighs 2,500 pounds. I have added to that a large steel plate that I mounted a winch to which I estimate adds at least 500 pounds to the trailer weight. I often trailer old cars on it which adds at least another 2,500 pounds. My truck handles this with no problems. I simply would not be able to do this with a smaller vehicle so I actually use my truck for reasons other than just driving my family around or as a status symbol.

I have had a tire blow out on the Long Island Expressway with my Excursion. I was able to keep control of the truck and get to the side of the road without incident. I was traveling at the speed limit when this happened. If I was traveling much faster I perhaps would not have been able to keep control of the vehicle. In instances such as these I do believe that following the rules of the road make my truck safer than if I did not.

If you look at the statistics of SUVs and pick up trucks that have accidents with fatalities; the majority of those fatalities result from one vehicle accidents which shows me that the way people drive these vehicles has a lot to do with the fatality rate. I rate my truck in the classification as the heavy duty pick up trucks due to the fact that it is characteristically more like them than like a smaller SUV. It is built on the same chassis design as the F250 and F350 and is of similar weight.

There is something else that you should keep in mind. There are many people whom modify their trucks. They have no statistics on how many trucks that flipped had modifications made. Any body lift kit added to these trucks raises the center of gravity more than it already is and will obviously make it flip over easier. The owner's manual for my truck even states that if you buy taller tires than stock you raise the center of gravity.

Of course there is a better chance of my truck flipping than there is of a car flipping. At the same time, in an accident where my truck will not flip, the truck does still have crumple zones such as passenger cars do in order to absorb energy from an impact. Also, if you look at statistics the majority of accidents involving pick ups and SUVs do not result in the vehicle flipping. They flip more than cars do but the majority of accidents involving them do not involve a roll over.

I guess the point I am trying to make to you is the fact that a larger vehicle may not be safer for drivers in an accident than a car weighing less but there is something to be said about the way people drive these larger vehicles. Just the fact that the majority of fatalities from these vehicles occur with only that vehicle having an accident with no other vehicle shows that those people are not driving them properly.

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

No doubt, another reason why they US auto industry is a dead duck, that bailout money was a complete waste. Hondas, Toyotas etc .... vehicles are largely produced in the US, greater than 50% in most cases (How American is that car? - USATODAY.com). As far as I know the workers in these factories are non unionized and this has helped the car manufactors not suffer as greatly. Another thing I will never understand is why they dont increase production dramatically on hybrids. The demand for them was very great, so much that people would pay more than sticker, so I dont see why the company would not pump up production and sell like crazy. The same thing goes for things like the Ninetndo Wii. You couldnt even buy that thing for like the first two years because it was gone everywhere, why dont they just make a ton of them and sell them all ... more money is made selling the games for the systems anyhow.



I have read articles on this as well but have yet to see it substantiated. Every year when you look at consumer reports car reliability history which lists numbers of reported problems for vehicle types, US cars still perform poorly in comparison though there are exceptions to this.

Something is wrong here. We found something to agree on.