Stop letting your kids drive fast cars (live, move)

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by Egobop

I believe this thread in itself shows one reason there will always be accidents regardless of whether people drive below, above or at the speed limit. The reason is that everyone posting has their own idea of what an "idiot" driver is. Some feel the idiots are the people doing 75 while others think the idiots are the ones doing 45. As for NHP's comments; I do not agree with a lot of them. I am not trying to say anything bad about his deceased friend at all so I hope this does not offend but in order for someone to hit the bridge at 70 that would tell me more than likely the speed before hitting the bridge was well above that before braking. Also, if the car was doing the posted speed limit or slightly above; maybe 60, there may have been enough time to see that car coming and slow down. Saying that someone hitting the bridge at 55 would result in death is true but hitting the side of a bridge or a tree at 30 can kill someone as well. Does this mean people on the LIE at night when it is clear enough of traffic to do 120 should do so? Seems somewhat irresponsible to me personally. I do agree that people entering a highway should try to get on closer to the highway speed but anyone driving in NY should know that this is not always possible, especially on some entrance ramps on the Northern State and Southern State where the entrance ramps simply do not have enough room to let you up to speed unless you are driving a "sportier" vehicle that lets you.
One reason a number of 18 wheelers drive in the middle lane of the LIE is so that they do not have to keep changing from the right lane to the middle to let entering traffic onto the highway. This can be a pain in a large truck that can't accelerate as well as a car can when the cars in the middle lane are going faster than the truck is. If you drive the highways upstate you see the trucks driving in the right lane on the highways and only move left to pass or let vehicles onto the highway. This is due to less traffic and farther distances between exits. I do the same thing when I am towing with my trailer. I try to stay in the right lane the majority of the time but when traffic is heavier it is better to stay in the middle lane.
Another thing I think is a major problem that I do see anyone mentioning are SUVs and pick-up trucks. I have seen many SUVs rolled over and although people like to say it is because the center of gravity of the vehicle is higher, which it actually is; another reason for them rolling over is due to the fact that a lot of people do not drive them as if they are trucks, they drive them as if they are cars. I have a 2001 Excursion with a diesel engine and drive it like a truck because I know that is what it is intended to be. I also know that it takes a longer distance to stop than a car at the same speed. I have seen people is SUVs weaving in and out of traffic as if they are in a sports car and just can't understand why. Even while driving in heavy snow in the winter I see the four wheel drives passing me. My truck has four wheel drive as well but I know that if I hit the brakes and skid the four wheel drive is not helping. This is why you see so a lot of four wheel drive vehicles involved in accidents in the snow or ice.

There will always be accidents because people do not follow the rule of the road.

He never hit the bridge at 70, he was traveling at 70 prior to being forced to the bridge from the driver NOT following the rule of the road and entering the highway below the posted speed and continuing to not look in his mirror.... at impact he was down to 45 mph...

Had he been traveling at 55 mph prior to, the same would have happened...what he should have done was either hit him, since he left him no choice, or never have slowed to allow him be stuck along side into it.

Again IF people follow the rules accidents do not happen...

Also as i see from your post you drive the middle lane because you seem to think people have the right of way entering the highway, they do not...Law states enter only when safe to do so, that means if traffic is flowing at 60 in the right you are wrong when entering and unsafe when doing so at 45....
Again following the rules of the road.
Same with entering a roadway from a turn on red, Same as with entering a road from a shopping center...
Enter as it is safe to do so, not when you feel the car approaching has enough time to stop and let you in....because you can't accelerate quickly enough....
Again all examples of NOT following the rules of the road...

As speed changes so do the rules, just like at certain hours the HOV lane is a left lane and not a HOV lane, that means if you aren't moving faster then the right lane at that time you need to vacate that left lane, you aren't passing, therefore not following the rules of the road. This is that simple, but people aren't

Again NOT following the rules of the road...

I happen to race a Jeep, it is amazing what a SUV can do compared to a sports car, i beat sports cars consistantly. I happen to find it puzzling as to how people roll them over.

Accidents happen from lack of DRIVING... as i stated earlier 97% of the population driving are operating a vehicle NOT driving...

Originally Posted by Wes927

Appears to me that you are doing two things:

1) Substiituting your own judgement for the law; and therefore rationalizing not following it.

2) Criticizing the reasonable drivers who get in the way while you are speeding.

I am not doing either of the 2 things...

1. Judgement for the law and rules of the road are 2 different things.

2. reasonable drivers don't get on a highway and just shoot over in front of oncoming traffic...forcing them to a wall.... if you know the law and rules of the road then you knew the car that caused the death was at fault, for making the unsafe lane changes causing the accident... speed is not always the contributing factor...

3. you need to reread and see how i was making examples for what 1 believes as the problem.

4. I happen to drive vehicles. I know the limits of every vehicle i drive, i DRIVE, not operate the vehicle, not talk on the phone as if im on some break, not text as if im sitting in a lunch room or at a desk, i pay attention to the other 97% of the operators around me and there lack of driving knowledge and watch as they make mistake after mistake.

Why this is getting to police chases and way off topic is beyond me.

The simple solution is to pay attention to DRIVING and follow the rules of the road, something only a handful of people do daily...

Tomorrow how are you exiting your driveway?

Starting the 1st operation wrong i bet.

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by NHP Guy

Sorry, I view those that are driving very aggressively to be extremely dangerous and I frankly don't care if they are sober or drunk - they are a threat on the roads and should be dealt with accordingly if/when the cops pull them over. Contrary to your experiences, I have been in plenty of situations where those that you referenced have made me weave or brake in a very quick fashion due to their irresponsible/reckless driving - I'm sure most others on this board will have experiences closer to mine than yours.

Comparing a driver that is driving fast to a drunk driver and saying so as they are 1 in the same threat is asinine!

If 2 cars as explained earlier in this thread are coming thru slow traffic and making ground on us that are just flowing along, how would they cause me to jump on my brakes? if i wasn't a qualified driver, or nervous, unsure of my driving and vehicle then i can see that....I see people do it all day everyday, jumping on there brakes because there nervous, anticipating a situation that isn't there and causing the/a problem...Again 97% of the public is unqualified to be driving a vehicle...
If the state made everyone use the standard CDL road test, traffic would be NON EXISTANT, tomorrow, busses and trains would be packed sardine cans, why? because there not taught how in drivers ed

So that goes along with why we have a need for REAL driver training....not this horribly outdated asinine drivers ed, and why we need a real motorsports facility to use to train the younger drivers

People on phones whether there talking or texting ARE A FAR GREATER DANGER then the fast driver...

I see it EVERYDAY... running lights, looking at the phone.
running into the car/truck ahead, looking at the phone.
crashing into the car next to them because the road made a turn....looking at the phone
Getting the guy passing in the left lane killed on the SS because they moved over out of lane, looking at the phone....

Remember like you were caused to swerve in traffic from someone approaching from behind you fast, or passing close to your nose while accelerating away from you causing you to jump on your brakes as a nervous reaction, the same happens to the people killed on the road, many one vehicle crashes you see in the news are caused by someone doing something to cause the other vehicle to make a sudden and sometimes deadly reaction....
Possibly the last death caused on the SS was someone paying attention to the phone while the other car was passing, he/she made a sudden movement, leading the other vehicle to make a move it possibly didn't have to....

I find it hard to believe how some, many one car accidents had no outside influence, and like i said speed doesn't, isn't always the answer, but after doing investigating it is easy to say speed....what caused the vehicle to leave the road....speed was not and is not always the reason.

Real Driver Training is needed, at a real facility, then watch how dramatically things change.
People overeact to driving situations day in and day out....unqualified, unsure makes them more dangerous then others.

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by LIMA

Also as i see from your post you drive the middle lane because you seem to think people have the right of way entering the highway, they do not...Law states enter only when safe to do so, that means if traffic is flowing at 60 in the right you are wrong when entering and unsafe when doing so at 45....
Again following the rules of the road.
Same with entering a roadway from a turn on red, Same as with entering a road from a shopping center...
Enter as it is safe to do so, not when you feel the car approaching has enough time to stop and let you in....because you can't accelerate quickly enough....
Again all examples of NOT following the rules of the road...

My riding the middle lane while towing my trailer with a car on it while a number of vehicles are entering the highway from the entrance to the right lane does not mean that I feel the people entering the roadway have the right of way at all. It is actually called a common courtesy to let the cars get onto the roadway. Also, I am sure you know that there will most definitely be individuals that are going slower than I am that will cut in front of me anyway. Just because I have the right of way does not mean I am not going to try to stop and just hit the vehicle in front of me. Perhaps you also do not realize that any time there is an accident where a vehicle is rear ended, the vehicle in the rear is at fault according to automobile insurance companies. Just because I have the right of way does not mean that I should not drive as safely as possible as to not be involved in an accident. That is the same as saying if the left two lanes are closed ahead and you are in the right lane that you should not have the courtesy to let a car merge in front of you since you actually have the right of way.
I also happen to own a two door 1968 Chrysler Newport with a big block 383 with a lot of motor work done to it (Edelbrock aluminum heads, a purple cam, Speed Demon carb., TTI headers, MSD ignition and distributor, 11:1 compression, etc) and I do not drive it faster than 5 to 10 miles over the speed limit which is the most I would go over the speed limit in any vehicle on the highways. On regular streets I do the posted speed limit. I will save anything quicker than that for the track (Englishtown or if they ever open up another drag strip on Long Island; which I hope one day they will). If you are thinking of knocking the speed ability of the large C body Chrysler I will let you know that although the car is large it weighs 3,300 pounds which is only 400 pounds more than my 1965 Fairlane weighed, 300 pounds less than my 1985 Cutlass weighed and also less than my 1987 IROC Camaro weighed. I have not had the car dyno tested but the engine in stock form was rated at 290 horsepower with the original two barrel set up and the 9:1 compression ratio. I would have to believe I have at least 100 more with the set up I have in there now. The modifications I still have to do on the car include a front disc brake set up and some rear suspension work since the car still has rear leaf springs. I also want to change the gears in the 8 3/4 rear. I will probably go with 3.73 or 3.90 so that I can still use it on the highway without the motor screaming too much. I think any more than that would take the "street" out of the "street/strip" combo.

[NHP Guy]

LIMA - call my position asinine and I'll do the same with your position and we'll leave it at that.

You completely misinterpret/misread many of the things that others write. I'm not going to waste my time being lectured by one of the "3% of the drivers" out there that seemingly condones the actions of the aggressive morons and indicates that it's the rest of us "nervous drivers" that are the problem. As I said, denial is a difficult thing for "drivers" like you to overcome.

I hope we never meet up on the roads.

Adios.

[dman72]

Whew, I really started something!!

The guys who always talk about driving "skill" and how elderly people are the scurge of the road..these are most likely the under 30 "supermen" who view the roads as their own personal autobahn. Why do I keep saying this? Because I was there once, and so were some guys I know..and still are. This mentality is deadly. The sooner you grow up, the better. What made me grow up? It actually was an elderly woman turning in front of me who was completely at fault for the accident, but the first time you feel an impact at 35MPH..you never forget it..and you can only imagine what 40 or 50 mph feels like. not good.

[56 Fighter]

Originally Posted by scottzilla

There is some truth to this, and it's somthing that has been discussed to death among the motorcycling community: Should an inexperienced person be able to go an buy a 400 pound bike that does a 10 sec 1/4 and 185mph?
My opinion is biased as I have enjoyed motorcyles for over 20 years now (I have 2 and am buying another tomorrow) and do not want gov't control.
The only thing I can say is despite the potential for disaster, stats show it's not the young sport bike riders that are dieing, it's the over 35 cruiser riders that are!
I have encountered more cruisers that simply had no business riding a bike over the years than I care to remember.
It is amazing what 15k will buy though.

Menaces on motorcycles are a bigger nuisance, IMO, than speeding drivers. Everytime I see a jerk-off zip passed me on the highway on a motorcycle I cringe thinking that same moron is bloody in the middle of the road after skidding out.

[LIMA]

Lol im not 30 or under and some people really need to grasp driving and road rules...

Dman you hit a lady in front of you, i encounter hundreds a day that are in the wrong, i haven't hit them... So saying driving skill is just for the under 30 and supermen is silly.

Following road rules and knowing how to drive would alleviate all kinds of issues

Egobog how can your Newport be lighter then my Sport fury? and my Magnum and Roadrunner which are all well over 3300, My dart isn't 3300

[sean sean sean sean]

Jeez, there is a lot of ridiculousness in this thread...

I didn't read all of it, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm just rehashing stuff that was already covered...

The big debate seems to be a couple of issues here,

1: The left lane is always for passing. If you are driving 55, 65, 75 or even 125 MPH in the left lane and someone is trying to get around you - you are causing a potentially deadly problem. No one "dictates" how fast traffic should be moving aside from the posted speed limit signs, the state legislature and the cops. It doesn't matter if you think you're driving fast enough, if someone wants to get by then by all means GET OUT OF THE WAY!! It's much safer to have them fly by you than have them weaving in and out of traffic to get ahead. I see people sitting in the left lane all day on LI roads, even when traffic in the middle and right is flying by them...this is insanity. One of the most obvious signs that perhaps LI drivers really don't know what they're doing...if you are someone who practices this driving technique, please, I'm begging you - ask any driving instructor in the world what the proper procedure is...you are a danger to yourself and everyone around you.

2: I don't know what the laws are regarding whether traffic entering a limited-access roadway has the right of way or vice-versa, but on LI it would definitely seem that it doesn't....however many places upstate, the common practice is to allow merging traffic to get in. To be on the safe side, I always wait until it's clear when entering a roadway in downstate NY....plus we have such a high volume of traffic that if everyone slowed down when cars were merging, nobody would really get anywhere!

3: I have no problem with people sitting in the middle lane driving slow all day. Again, that's what the left lane is for....if they're going too slow, go around them. Personally, I am not a speeder. 65 is the max I'll ever do, and I actually like to stay in the right lane if there isn't much traffic, but if it's heavy I stick to the middle.

4: It seems like anyone who owns a fast car, builds fast cars, enjoys fast cars, etc. is being painted as a reckless, immature child in this thread....and that offends me. I am a huge fan of motorsports and wish we had more (or ANY!!) places on the island to legally enjoy this hobby. I also truly believe that if kids did have the proper facilities to race, as well as the proper instruction that stressed NOT doing anything stupid on the streets, we'd hear much less about these horrible street racing/speeding accidents. All we've got right now is Riverhead Raceway which is always in danger of closing (and not convenient for the vast majority of the island) and once a month SCCA Solo2 events at Nassau Collesium. SCCA is great, very fun, very safe and an amazing way for a young driver to learn vehicle control....but they operate at really crappy hours (7AM Sunday sign in time) and again, the events are few and far between. BMW CCA used to run an auto-x but I don't think they do anymore, and Briarcliffe College in Bethpage had a short-lived one as well. In my lifetime, that's it...we don't even have a simple drag strip now that Westhampton is dead. Unfortunately, the NIMBYs and misplace environmental concerns have won, and now we're stuck with goofy, poorly trained kids racing cars that are set up horribly on the streets. Cars are a great hobby, but they're a deadly weapon. There's no way we can somehow make kids stop being enchanted by them and by speed, but we used to at least give them a place to satisfy those desires....

BTW Like I said earlier, I don't speed. I've gotten two speeding tickets in my life and the last one was when I was 17 years old. I drive for a living and have for the past 8 years or so. I've never been in an accident while I was driving - actually, I was hit twice while parked but I don't think that counts. I have been in really bad accidents as a passanger, in fact I went through a Chrysler Sebring windshield that hit a concrete wall at 50 MPH and walked away from it....thank god I was drunk, I think it numbed the pain...but that never made me want to give up racing cars, I've just never had a desire to race on the street (aside from some late night Ocean Parkway runs) because I learned how to do things the right way when I was young. Some people aren't so fortunate!

[dman72]

Personally, I don't care if you build a race track in every township on LI...just get the idiots off the streets.

Sean, you're exactly right about the left lane "attititudes". There are some people who just so indignantly refuse to move out of that lane.."I can drive in any lane that I want!", and they are a problem.

[minesbroken]

The cops cant catch everyone, and people these days would give they're kids anything they want rather than hear them whine. I see it every day. I work in car audio and security. I see kids that just got they're licenses yesterday and mommy and daddy gave them a BMW or a Lexus today. your first car is supposed to be a hunk of crap people...not a brand new lexus. Where have the values gone? Where is the last stronghold of common sense? tell me so I can move there!! We should have more traffic cams or something. they should have speed cams on major highways and stop light cams at major intersections. Set them at 11 mph over the speed limit and the people who shouldnt have licenses wont have them long. They will probably have 20 tickets before they get the first one in the mail lol.