Enforcing of Rules on LIRR (Babylon: salary, vacation, requirements)

[LI-chica]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

I thought the train driver was called a motorman, and that on all trains there was also a brakeman. Then the rest of the crew consists of (one or more of each) a conductor and a trainman who are people who open and close doors, make announcements, punch tickets, etc., except the conductor has more skills and more authority in an emergency situation and is paid a little higher. When it comes to the LIRR, someone on CD recently wrote that the ticket punchers make $75K (after a few years, not at entry level). I also think the motormen make over $100K.

Conductors: Almost the same exact training as an Engineer (the ones who drive the train). Many years of studying (on their own time) to qualify, of which the test is almost equivalent to taking the bar exam (need to know every inch of track, every signal, every branch, every station, qualify for diesel AND electric, etc. etc....need to know book of rules verbatim). You need to have a photographic memory to pass it. The 3 years my husband studied (and worked at the same time) are our "lost years". I barely saw him. I still barely see him. They pay BIG time in quality of life, and MAJOR loss of family time (there is a high divorce rate on the LIRR). They don't get holidays off, unless it happens to fall on their day off. They can't just take a 1/2 day off, or come into work late. Days off have to be planned carefully. Their first couple years they are on call, 24 hrs. - at the beck & call of the railroad at ungodly hours. They can't have a leisurely drink at a party, because they technically can be called out at any time & cannot have alcohol (or drugs) in their system. They have to qualify for brakeman & ass't conductor initially. Yes, they punch tickets also. Some take a "job" strictly as a ticket puncher on the train, but they are actually usually qualified as asst conduct/conduct/brakeman. There are also the regular people at the ticket windows. That's not a trainman job. Conductors clean up vomit & urine from disorderly drunks. They are cursed & spit at by the public. They are regularly abused, and that is why you sometimes see a disgruntled employee. And there is so much more knowledge that goes into their everyday jobs that the public just doesn't see.

There are alot of guys (and gals) on the RR who are good people. I hate to see them all lumped into the same category & bashed. I think people focus too much on the few bad experiences with conductors, rather than the multitude of good experiences. For the same reason, I hate to see the NYPD bashed, because again, the public just doesn't understand the stress of the job, the crazy schedules that strain a family and one's health, and the quality of life issue.

FTR: I don't agree with the way that conductor handled the situation. I'm of the mentality that if you are dealing with the public, you have to suck it up & be as polite as possible. But then, I'm not in their shoes, so I can't even speak for that.

[Johninwestbury]

Is there even any "proof" that this happened? All this story is, is one person claiming that the engineer allowed a passenger into the cab, and the passenger operated the train. Until I see some proof, I dont believe it. What kind of engineer would take such a risk, esp on such a monitored stretch of track. There are cameras all over Hicksville and Jamaica.
Perhaps this passenger had a grudge against the engineer?
I sure wish DA Rice would be as upset about the invasion of Nassau County by criminal illegal aliens. Unlike the heresay about this LIRR incident, the proof of the dangers that illegals pose to Nassau citizens isnt hard to find.
I love how the media (esp Newsday) convict the engineer without any proof. If these allegations are false, I hope the engineer sues, and gets Dolan's house in Oyster Bay Cove.

[Pierre Vert]

Originally Posted by FSResident

If you think the LIRR's high ticket prices give you the right to do whatever you want, before you know it, we'll see people peeing on the floor if there's a line for the bathroom

I guess you never use the LIRR after midnight on a Friday or Saturday?

[Samrai309]

Originally Posted by Pierre Vert

I guess you never use the LIRR after midnight on a Friday or Saturday?

Why you are not referring to whats affectionately known as the "drunk" train now are you?

[SamTheCatRocks]

Originally Posted by Samrai309

Why you are not referring to whats affectionately known as the "drunk" train now are you?

Also known as the "Vomit Comet."

[dman72]

Originally Posted by LI-chica

Conductors: Almost the same exact training as an Engineer (the ones who drive the train). Many years of studying (on their own time) to qualify, of which the test is almost equivalent to taking the bar exam (need to know every inch of track, every signal, every branch, every station, qualify for diesel AND electric, etc. etc....need to know book of rules verbatim). You need to have a photographic memory to pass it. The 3 years my husband studied (and worked at the same time) are our "lost years". I barely saw him. I still barely see him. They pay BIG time in quality of life, and MAJOR loss of family time (there is a high divorce rate on the LIRR). They don't get holidays off, unless it happens to fall on their day off. They can't just take a 1/2 day off, or come into work late. Days off have to be planned carefully. Their first couple years they are on call, 24 hrs. - at the beck & call of the railroad at ungodly hours. They can't have a leisurely drink at a party, because they technically can be called out at any time & cannot have alcohol (or drugs) in their system. They have to qualify for brakeman & ass't conductor initially. Yes, they punch tickets also. Some take a "job" strictly as a ticket puncher on the train, but they are actually usually qualified as asst conduct/conduct/brakeman. There are also the regular people at the ticket windows. That's not a trainman job. Conductors clean up vomit & urine from disorderly drunks. They are cursed & spit at by the public. They are regularly abused, and that is why you sometimes see a disgruntled employee. And there is so much more knowledge that goes into their everyday jobs that the public just doesn't see.

There are alot of guys (and gals) on the RR who are good people. I hate to see them all lumped into the same category & bashed. I think people focus too much on the few bad experiences with conductors, rather than the multitude of good experiences. For the same reason, I hate to see the NYPD bashed, because again, the public just doesn't understand the stress of the job, the crazy schedules that strain a family and one's health, and the quality of life issue.

FTR: I don't agree with the way that conductor handled the situation. I'm of the mentality that if you are dealing with the public, you have to suck it up & be as polite as possible. But then, I'm not in their shoes, so I can't even speak for that.

I know all about the conditions and the lifestyle. I got my resume into the right hands at the LIRR along with 2 friends of mine, one of whom is still on the job, the other who quit after 3 years. I interviewed for the job, and passed the first 2 exams. I was "in". It wasn't "easy", but it was pure memorization, completely mindless, not one friggin iota what the bar exam is like. It was memorizing a bunch of pictures and words. A lot of the training simply a hazing ritual to get rid of people who aren't fully committed, kinda like the police academies. Amazing what civil servants and their families will trump up their qualifications to be.

That's why I decided it wasn't for me even after being in the clear, pretty much. Why didn't I stick with it? Because I was a college graduate, and when they started going around the room during the first week of training and having people read passages in the manual, about 1/3rd of the guys could barely read.

They also went on the whole spiel about how you won't have a summer vacation for 10 years, you'll work ungodly hours, you'll deal with belligerent drunks, your only friends will be other railroad employees, etc. It was all scare tactic nonsense, but it partially worked on me. This was a blue collar job, and while I come from blue collar roots, I didn't to to school for 4 years to memorize signs and punch tickets, regardless of what a gravy train it is.

The simple fact is that the LIRR job is for people without education and few other options. I felt like I would be taking a job from someone who really needed that kind of work, and that my brain would atrophy. They said that they had a tuition reimbursement plan, but who can take a class when you don't know your hours week to week? I was, relatively, a kid and that seemed like a dead end.

75K is base salary. When I was training, overtime deal at the LIRR is similar to cops..it's easily available and it jacks your salary up. Making 90K for a conducter is not difficult. The pension is great.

The fact is that it's a very high compensation level for positions with very few qualifications that is paid by ridiculous tolls and fares..de facto taxes. I don't envy the people working the jobs, but there is a reason that thousands of people clamor for them. The pay is way more than the pool of people vying for the jobs could demand anywhere else.

[jpg71]

Originally Posted by dman72

The fact is that it's a very high compensation level for positions with very few qualifications that is paid by ridiculous tolls and fares..de facto taxes. I don't envy the people working the jobs, but there is a reason that thousands of people clamor for them. The pay is way more than the pool of people vying for the jobs could demand anywhere else.

Not only that, but it seems that the vast majority of LIRR workers retire and then apply (and are approved) for disability benefits. There was an article posted here within the last year that covered that.

This wasn't even limited to the operational staff - even the white collar workers were doing it. It was some ungodly statistic like 98% of all staff were retiring with disability pension. Pretty dangerous career apparently!

Ah, here's one of the articles: New York Times Exposes LIRR Disability Scam

[dman72]

Originally Posted by jpg71

Not only that, but it seems that the vast majority of LIRR workers retire and then apply (and are approved) for disability benefits. There was an article posted here within the last year that covered that.

This wasn't even limited to the operational staff - even the white collar workers were doing it. It was some ungodly statistic like 98% of all staff were retiring with disability pension. Pretty dangerous career apparently!

Ah, here's one of the articles: New York Times Exposes LIRR Disability Scam

I remember in training the 2 guys running the class were talking about how many injuries there were....for conductors? The scam has been going on for a long time and it was WELL known.

[LI-chica]

Originally Posted by dman72

I know all about the conditions and the lifestyle. I got my resume into the right hands at the LIRR along with 2 friends of mine, one of whom is still on the job, the other who quit after 3 years. I interviewed for the job, and passed the first 2 exams. I was "in". It wasn't "easy", but it was pure memorization, completely mindless, not one friggin iota what the bar exam is like. It was memorizing a bunch of pictures and words. A lot of the training simply a hazing ritual to get rid of people who aren't fully committed, kinda like the police academies. Amazing what civil servants and their families will trump up their qualifications to be.

Umm, Dman, those are the ENTRY exams. BASIC SKILL TESTS pre-post interview, lol. Before the REAL training, and then 3 years of studying. Not even a drop in the bucket. Don't claim to know what it's like if you didn't get past that. Yes, the initial exams are a cakewalk.

[LI-chica]

Originally Posted by dman72

They also went on the whole spiel about how you won't have a summer vacation for 10 years, you'll work ungodly hours, you'll deal with belligerent drunks, your only friends will be other railroad employees, etc. It was all scare tactic nonsense, but it partially worked on me. This was a blue collar job, and while I come from blue collar roots, I didn't to to school for 4 years to memorize signs and punch tickets, regardless of what a gravy train it is.

Wasn't scare tactics. It's all true. My husband has been in 8 years, and isn't close to getting a summer vacation.

Originally Posted by dman72

The simple fact is that the LIRR job is for people without education and few other options.

Seriously? The requirements are you have to have SOME college to get a job as an ass't conductor (which leads to conductor). My husband has a college degree. He's not a some mindless moron.

Originally Posted by dman72

75K is base salary. When I was training, overtime deal at the LIRR is similar to cops..it's easily available and it jacks your salary up. Making 90K for a conducter is not difficult. The pension is great.

My husband started out first year at 35K!! And it was something like 50K in his 3rd year. Don't know where you get the base salary, but that's about his base right now - AFTER 8 years. Yes, they make alot in overtime. But you know what? He works his ass off for that overtime. He EARNS that overtime. Do you work 7 days a week? Could you? Why deny someone who is willing to work for it?? The fact is that it is cheaper to pay an employee overtime, than to hire another worker & pay out for benefits. So basically this saves the riders.

I knew this would turn into a debate. You can't judge unless you went through qualifying as conductor. The little training class you had was a little tiny part of the process. And certainly not the hard part.