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Old 07-25-2009, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Suffolk County, NY
875 posts, read 1,453,038 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by 56 Fighter View Post
$135k by itself isn't crazy... but add in the number of days off, the free healthcare, the free pension that is inflated with OT, and you get a ridiculous compensation package. The median household income of Suffolk is around $80k, so with benefits a cop makes double what the median household makes - I'm sorry but that's nuts.
Well; health benefits is something any police department does and should get. I do not know much about the days off situation but I do also understand one of the reasons for this is twelve hour shifts. I do know that in NYC it is the officer's decision as whether to take overtime in pay or in time which can be used to take days off. The city prefers officers to take it in time since they do not have to pay the money and an officer has to submit paperwork for a day off which can always be denied.

The way I see it; an officer is generally at more risk to his or her safety on a daily basis then those you are comparing him or her to so in my opinion them making more money is justified. As I have said, I was in the NYPD so I did not make the money they make out here although I do believe all officers should.

 
Old 07-25-2009, 02:03 PM
 
938 posts, read 985,254 times
Reputation: 489
Something else you just don't understand. The risk premium isn't measured by the stats. It's how the risk is incurred. For your gardener, it's the risk of an accident. For a cop, it's risk not only from accident, but also hostile encounters with people and other situations. Getting shot while on duty is a definite risk to police. I'm not thinking your gardener has the same risk of being shot.

Last edited by Keeper; 07-25-2009 at 04:40 PM..
 
Old 07-26-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 767,158 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5dollarfootlong View Post
Blame the SCPD. It's the SCPD's fault for all of this - they are too expensive and something needs to be done to balance the budget. That's what happens when you have a patrol officer working a little bit of OT and making $135k a year.
I dont see what shuffling around police officers has to do with the budget. It cost the same amount of money per officer wether John Law is in brentwood or amaganset. I would rather have the cops that know the area in the area. If you want to weed out corruption do it...if you want to make budget cuts do it...but let the good cops do what they do best in the area that they are familiar with.
 
Old 07-26-2009, 04:23 PM
 
1,615 posts, read 2,095,711 times
Reputation: 1056
I find it highly amusing that a blue area such as Long Island has such animosity towards their Law Enforcement personnel. The way I see it is that 30,000 people compete for a job that is harder to get into than princeton statistically and attracts professional law enforcement personnel from all over the country to compete against ordinary joes in a process open to just about anyone. If you speak to some of them you'll find out that not only is the force comprised of combat military veterans, former secret service, CIA, FBI,ATF, DEA, NYPD brass and other agencies throughout the country which in fact has to do with a salary that competes with Nassau County , Westchester County, and is geared economically towards other departments in the U.S. My conclusion is for the taxes you are paying...which isn't much compared to the school districts, and the services you are getting, I can only conclude that a vast majority are naysayers that are criminals, wannabees, and those that never did or never will stand a chance of getting on.


Lets face it...it takes a special breed to serve your country and your community. To strap on a vest, pin on a shield, and holster a firearm ready to meet any challenge that presents itself is to me, in my opinion, an honorable profession and personally worth a heck of a lot more than they are paid. When guys like Kobe Bryant and Michael Irving get paid millions it doesn't make sense.

The point is quit crying, get off the couch, and take the test. It's embarassing to hear Long Islanders cry and moan about a vital asset to our community. Moderator cut: language removed

Last edited by nancy thereader; 07-27-2009 at 06:50 AM..
 
Old 07-26-2009, 10:12 PM
 
924 posts, read 1,075,857 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
I find it highly amusing that a blue area such as Long Island has such animosity towards their Law Enforcement personnel. The way I see it is that 30,000 people compete for a job that is harder to get into than princeton statistically and attracts professional law enforcement personnel from all over the country to compete against ordinary joes in a process open to just about anyone. If you speak to some of them you'll find out that not only is the force comprised of combat military veterans, former secret service, CIA, FBI,ATF, DEA, NYPD brass and other agencies throughout the country which in fact has to do with a salary that competes with Nassau County , Westchester County, and is geared economically towards other departments in the U.S.
It would be great if what you said was "true." We do get a lot of people who take the test for SCPD. Unfortunately, we don't get the best of all of the above departments because your inclusion into the SCPD is based on your test score. This means that you could be the best FBI field agent in the past 20 years, citations covering your living room walls and multiple medals of valor. Yet, you can still be knocked out of contention by a group of Navy Cooks who had four months of shore duty to study for the test and get 5 points for Military service. Your ability to take a written test is 100x more important factor than your background. So, we get the best test takers that 150k can buy.

The fact that it competes with NCPD or Westchester Police is because their contracts are reviewed by an arbitration panel that makes them always comparable. No one, with half a brain, outside of those that benefit from police overpayment in those counties wants to see their police make 150k a year either.

Quote:
My conclusion is for the taxes you are paying...which isn't much compared to the school districts, and the services you are getting,
This is a poor argument, since we could cut salaries for Police by 50% and put 25% more police officers on the street. We would get a lot more for our money. Also, the School Districts are another problem with Long Island and arguing that we get an even worse deal from schools is not a strong argument for why we shouldn't care about overpaying our teachers.

Quote:
I can only conclude that a vast majority are naysayers that are criminals, wannabees, and those that never did or never will stand a chance of getting on.
Yes, a very valid conclusion. Anyone who thinks that paying someone six figures for a job that requires a GED education must be a criminal or delinquent. Your powers of deduction rival those of a kegirator.

Quote:
Lets face it...it takes a special breed to serve your country and your community. To strap on a vest, pin on a shield, and holster a firearm ready to meet any challenge that presents itself is to me, in my opinion, an honorable profession and personally worth a heck of a lot more than they are paid.
I would agree with you in a sense, without adding all of the teary eyed melo-dramatic nonsense that you have on here. It's a special breed, but not one that is particularly hard to find. Or we wouldn't have thousands of applicants for each position. However, it doesn't give them the right to hose the citizens of Suffolk County who, for the msot part, work just as hard as most cops and earn a fraction of what they earn.


Quote:
When guys like Kobe Bryant and Michael Irving get paid millions it doesn't make sense.
I would agree with you that they overpaid, but they earn it in a more honest way that the SCPD. Here's my argument. Kobe Bryant is in demand because of his god given talents and the ability for his talent to entertain millions, thus bringing in huge amounts of revenue. If he walks away from LA who are they going to get who can drain a jumper or run the lane like he does? The job requirements that he fulfills to make the money he makes dictates that only 2 or 3 other guys in the world can do what he does. That is why he earns an insane amount of money.

If all of the SCPD had their salaries cut to 65k a year. They could all leave and they would be replaced in one week. The only job requirements for being a cop is a GED or higher and a physical fitness level that is moderate at best. So, the demand for such a job is dwarfed by the supply of qualified applicants. Thus, they shouldn't earn the ridiculous salaries they do. However, through back-room politics and union shenanigans they can make sure that the arbitration board is stocked with Pro-Union faces that will keep handing them contracts that pay them more than most Phd grads.

Quote:
The point is quit crying, get off the couch, and take the test. It's embarassing to hear Long Islanders cry and moan about a vital asset to our community.
Interesting closing comments.

Last edited by nancy thereader; 07-27-2009 at 06:50 AM..
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:25 AM
 
938 posts, read 985,254 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonlineli View Post
It would be great if what you said was "true." We do get a lot of people who take the test for SCPD. Unfortunately, we don't get the best of all of the above departments because your inclusion into the SCPD is based on your test score. This means that you could be the best FBI field agent in the past 20 years, citations covering your living room walls and multiple medals of valor. Yet, you can still be knocked out of contention by a group of Navy Cooks who had four months of shore duty to study for the test and get 5 points for Military service. Your ability to take a written test is 100x more important factor than your background. So, we get the best test takers that 150k can buy.

The fact that it competes with NCPD or Westchester Police is because their contracts are reviewed by an arbitration panel that makes them always comparable. No one, with half a brain, outside of those that benefit from police overpayment in those counties wants to see their police make 150k a year either.



This is a poor argument, since we could cut salaries for Police by 50% and put 25% more police officers on the street. We would get a lot more for our money. Also, the School Districts are another problem with Long Island and arguing that we get an even worse deal from schools is not a strong argument for why we shouldn't care about overpaying our teachers.



Yes, a very valid conclusion. Anyone who thinks that paying someone six figures for a job that requires a GED education must be a criminal or delinquent. Your powers of deduction rival those of a kegirator.



I would agree with you in a sense, without adding all of the teary eyed melo-dramatic nonsense that you have on here. It's a special breed, but not one that is particularly hard to find. Or we wouldn't have thousands of applicants for each position. However, it doesn't give them the right to hose the citizens of Suffolk County who, for the msot part, work just as hard as most cops and earn a fraction of what they earn.




I would agree with you that they overpaid, but they earn it in a more honest way that the SCPD. Here's my argument. Kobe Bryant is in demand because of his god given talents and the ability for his talent to entertain millions, thus bringing in huge amounts of revenue. If he walks away from LA who are they going to get who can drain a jumper or run the lane like he does? The job requirements that he fulfills to make the money he makes dictates that only 2 or 3 other guys in the world can do what he does. That is why he earns an insane amount of money.

If all of the SCPD had their salaries cut to 65k a year. They could all leave and they would be replaced in one week. The only job requirements for being a cop is a GED or higher and a physical fitness level that is moderate at best. So, the demand for such a job is dwarfed by the supply of qualified applicants. Thus, they shouldn't earn the ridiculous salaries they do. However, through back-room politics and union shenanigans they can make sure that the arbitration board is stocked with Pro-Union faces that will keep handing them contracts that pay them more than most Phd grads.



Interesting closing comments.
Your point by point rebuttal would be better if it were accurate. For instance, entry requirements are not limited to just a GED and a "moderate" physical fitness test. The fact is that most entrants to the police academy have a college education. Yes, there is a physical fitness test. But there are also medical and psychological screenings and a thorough background investigation. For every ten people who pass the test, one will eventually be offered a job. That's a whole lot more stringent than just about any other job, and it ensures that the best candidates are chosen.

You're also sadly mistaken if you think that a six figure salary is "ridiculous", especially for a job that "only requires a GED." Look around you at plumbers, electricians and others (especially union members) who handily make six figures (and don't require a college education.) Your assertion that it's ridiculous is a personal opinion, not a fact. You've obviously bought into the current mindset that only those who a college education should make any money (an incredibly elitist position.)

You also don't understand the arbitration process. You automatically assume that something underhanded is going on. There are three arbitrators for each contract arbitration: one picked by the county, one picked by the union, and one neutral party AGREED UPON by both sides. Hardly what I'd call "back room politics and union shenanigans."

Finally, there are lots of reasons why it makes sense to pay cops a good salary, but we've through that over and over and over, and I'm not going there again. You and the others don't approach these discussions with an open mind. You've already decided that cops aren't worth it. Have fun with that until you actually need one.
 
Old 07-27-2009, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Mastic Beach
752 posts, read 767,158 times
Reputation: 290
You cant talk about cops like they are all the same, They are individuals each and every one of them. some are Honest hard working officers who are impartial, some are scoundrels with a badge. You cant place them all in the same group and you certainly cant blame an entire county police force for the questionable actions of a few cops and government officials.
 
Old 07-28-2009, 02:23 AM
 
924 posts, read 1,075,857 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Your point by point rebuttal would be better if it were accurate. For instance, entry requirements are not limited to just a GED and a "moderate" physical fitness test. The fact is that most entrants to the police academy have a college education. Yes, there is a physical fitness test. But there are also medical and psychological screenings and a thorough background investigation. For every ten people who pass the test, one will eventually be offered a job. That's a whole lot more stringent than just about any other job, and it ensures that the best candidates are chosen.
Not accurate? The definition of a requirement is that it is....required....
Yes, some police officers do have college education, but the fact stands that it is not a requirement. Yes, there are psych test and background investigations. All of this is about as stringent as becoming a cook in the United States Navy. There you have to go through a boot camp, should we start paying all the line cooks six figures? I think not!

Quote:
You're also sadly mistaken if you think that a six figure salary is "ridiculous", especially for a job that "only requires a GED." Look around you at plumbers, electricians and others (especially union members) who handily make six figures (and don't require a college education.) Your assertion that it's ridiculous is a personal opinion, not a fact. You've obviously bought into the current mindset that only those who a college education should make any money (an incredibly elitist position.)
And your assertion that I'm "sadly mistaken" is a minority opinion, and a very poorly argued one at that. I have many friends that are plumbers and electricians, both union and not, trust me that 99% of them are not making anywhere close to six figures. Escpecially after only 5 years of experience. And your argument about the "current mindset" is a pretty funny statement. Sorry, but you just come off as a bitter and defensive uneducated person.

Quote:
You also don't understand the arbitration process. You automatically assume that something underhanded is going on. There are three arbitrators for each contract arbitration: one picked by the county, one picked by the union, and one neutral party AGREED UPON by both sides. Hardly what I'd call "back room politics and union shenanigans."
It would seem to be very up and up until you add some other factors in there. One, the arbiters are picked by an "approved" list. Who approves this list? The political machine in one way or another. Example, I've watched a very good friend of mine get chosen as a 3rd party neutral member and he is far from neutral in his views.

Quote:
Finally, there are lots of reasons why it makes sense to pay cops a good salary, but we've through that over and over and over, and I'm not going there again. You and the others don't approach these discussions with an open mind. You've already decided that cops aren't worth it. Have fun with that until you actually need one.
Ah, here is where you misunderstand me. I don't want to pay cops 20k and laugh as they try to make their mortgage payment. But, I also don't want to pay them what they are currently drawing in. The median household income for Suffolk County is somewhere around 75k. I think that should also be the average police salary for SCPD. Mind you, that is the average for a household, which is two people, so cops would be paid above the average for a person. Just not in the ridiculous range they are now.

At that pay scale you could hire 60% more cops and probably add things such as gang units and other special divisions that Suffolk desperately needs, all while staying under the current budget.

Here is a little hypothetical for you. Your a female woman at home by yourself at about midnight and you call 911 because someone just broke into your house. Which would you rather have?

A. Two cops show up on the scene, because SCPD can afford two of them at 75k

B. One cop show up on the scene earning 150k

C. The 911 Operator to tell you that there is no one coming until 9am, because the cops threw a hissy fit and don't answer their phones because they want to get paid 2 hours of OT in order to be on standby.
 
Old 07-28-2009, 07:13 AM
 
1,303 posts, read 2,060,980 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen View Post
Lima looking at your posts you seem to have had a lot of run ins with the law...none good.

5dollar made his account here to just do some cop bashing.
And the same could be said by others that you made your account here and all you do is defend SCPD...the cops need a new PR rep. The old song is not working. The VAST majority of citizens roll their eyes at your assessments (valid or not). But keep repeating it...You will get nowhere with these arguments and this topic has been bashed to death in these forums.

I will summarize every thread on this topic for everyone on city-data and we can move on:

Pro-cop rant:
Cops put there lives on the line and deserve everything they get...they should get their six-figure paychecks for risking their livelihood every second of every day and be allowed to retire in 20 months, not 20 years. If Levy does not stop this will be the land of crips and bloods in a few months...blah blah blah

Other side (to be fair and balanced): Cops are all overpaid, take Arbor Day "week" off, pump up their retirements and spend every free minute behind a Dunkin Donuts in between chasing racoons in Stony Brook...I pay the highest taxes in the world and they need to give some of that money back since they work for ME!

Now, let's all move on...beaten dead horse alert...
 
Old 07-28-2009, 04:47 PM
 
938 posts, read 985,254 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonlineli View Post
Not accurate? The definition of a requirement is that it is....required....
Yes, some police officers do have college education, but the fact stands that it is not a requirement. Yes, there are psych test and background investigations. All of this is about as stringent as becoming a cook in the United States Navy. There you have to go through a boot camp, should we start paying all the line cooks six figures? I think not!



And your assertion that I'm "sadly mistaken" is a minority opinion, and a very poorly argued one at that. I have many friends that are plumbers and electricians, both union and not, trust me that 99% of them are not making anywhere close to six figures. Escpecially after only 5 years of experience. And your argument about the "current mindset" is a pretty funny statement. Sorry, but you just come off as a bitter and defensive uneducated person.



It would seem to be very up and up until you add some other factors in there. One, the arbiters are picked by an "approved" list. Who approves this list? The political machine in one way or another. Example, I've watched a very good friend of mine get chosen as a 3rd party neutral member and he is far from neutral in his views.



Ah, here is where you misunderstand me. I don't want to pay cops 20k and laugh as they try to make their mortgage payment. But, I also don't want to pay them what they are currently drawing in. The median household income for Suffolk County is somewhere around 75k. I think that should also be the average police salary for SCPD. Mind you, that is the average for a household, which is two people, so cops would be paid above the average for a person. Just not in the ridiculous range they are now.

At that pay scale you could hire 60% more cops and probably add things such as gang units and other special divisions that Suffolk desperately needs, all while staying under the current budget.

Here is a little hypothetical for you. Your a female woman at home by yourself at about midnight and you call 911 because someone just broke into your house. Which would you rather have?

A. Two cops show up on the scene, because SCPD can afford two of them at 75k

B. One cop show up on the scene earning 150k

C. The 911 Operator to tell you that there is no one coming until 9am, because the cops threw a hissy fit and don't answer their phones because they want to get paid 2 hours of OT in order to be on standby.
Your point by point rebuttal is almost hilarious. You've referenced Navy cooks several times, so I'm guessing you have some experience with that.

College education is a defacto, if not official, requirement, since virtually all of the incoming recruits have that education. Police recruits go through their own boot camp, an experience that lasts about six months (as compared to that Navy boot camp you're familiar with that lasts all of about 10 weeks.) As far as your rather insulting insinuation that I'm a bitter, uneducated person, you should be aware that I have a graduate degree and several undergraduate degrees -- all earned before you were born and done the hard way, attending school nights and weekends. (It is your generation of "entitlement" that believes that you should be paid a whole lot more money than mere high school graduates because you "slaved" your way through four years of college on Daddy's money.)

Again, you don't have a handle on the arbitration process -- just an opinion that it's somehow crooked.

And as far as what you believe is an acceptable level of wages, two things come to mind: the first is that wages are part of a union contract (or arbitration award) agreed upon by both parties. The second is that your opinion on what is "ridiculous" is just that -- an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions ...

And, finally, your little hypothetical situation is just too stupid to comment on.
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