Accurate L.I High School Rankings? (Cold Spring Harbor, Bellport: neighborhoods, salary, live)

[Jdawg8181]

Originally Posted by CoolaTroopa

The problem for which why I think AP exams isn't the best way to evaluate schools.

I have a friend who went to Cold Spring Harbor for high school who told me that only 50% of the students would pass some of the APs in which 80% of the students were taking.. I think SAT scores are a better indication- assuming that education has some affect on how well a person does on them or at least it demonstrates the ability of the students to learn the material well which is important to how good a school is since a school with quick and/or eager learners will be able to teach more material than one with slow and/or uneager learners.

But often the SAT's do not even reflect what the curriculum is teaching. Not to mention, some of the the questions are worded weird. It doesn't necessarily mean the student doesn't know the material.

[CoolaTroopa]

Originally Posted by Jdawg8181

I went to Mepham...people got stabbed there, for chissakes, the football players molested eachother! But you can't really say Bellmore is a "bad" town just b/c of some incidents. Incidents happen in virtually every school. Bad towns are bad for other reasons...unrelated to the quality of the schools.

(And no, I do not like Bellmore. That doesn't mean I think it's "bad".)

I'm familiar with Bellmore. Not a bad area at all. I'm not as familiar with Brooklyn but from what I've heard.. I'm pretty sure what was going on in Franklin K. Lane was a hell lot worse than what was going on in Mepham overall. Stupid and horrifying stuff do happen but I was under the impression it happened on a more regular basis in an NYC public school than in a school such as Mepham.

Originally Posted by Jdawg8181

But often the SAT's do not even reflect what the curriculum is teaching. Not to mention, some of the the questions are worded weird. It doesn't necessarily mean the student doesn't know the material.

You do have a good point there. I would argue it does reflect what the curriculum is teaching somewhat but it adds a little twist to see how well you can apply these skills in the real world. It's not perfect though of course..I'd just argue it's better than Newsweek's method of ranking the schools.. which seems to only be based on AP tests.

I just can't think of a better way to rank public schools quantitatively- unless you want to go into the argument the schools shouldn't be ranked at all and we should just trust our common sense when it comes to choosing where to live.. which is not a bad indicator at all.

I guess this leads to my next question. How does a school like Southside rank #86 in terms of SAT average but #2 in terms of average number of APs taken?
How does Southside lose to many schools not even ranked by Newsweek (Wantagh, Hicksville, Smithtown) in terms of SAT scores by a considerable amount?

[dman72]

Originally Posted by CoolaTroopa

The problem for which why I think AP exams isn't the best way to evaluate schools.

I have a friend who went to Cold Spring Harbor for high school who told me that only 50% of the students would pass some of the APs in which 80% of the students were taking.. I think SAT scores are a better indication- assuming that education has some affect on how well a person does on them or at least it demonstrates the ability of the students to learn the material well which is important to how good a school is since a school with quick and/or eager learners will be able to teach more material than one with slow and/or uneager learners.

Again, SAT scores, Regents scores, students going on to 4 year colleges, etc.

[Jdawg8181]

The SAT's are designed to trick us...with the way they word questions etc. I was always fooled by questions like that...and then afterward would be kicking myself in the butt b/c I knew the answer...just got confused by the wording. So, telling me I'm not smart or the school wasn't good is complete BS. (Not that you said that, just saying...)

This is why I did very well in school, but not on my SAT's. I KNEW the material. What was on my SAT's were either things I didn't learn in school or questions with tricky wording. How can we possibly base school ranking on these kinds of tests? The tests are not designed for us to do well on them.

To answer your question, and I stated this earlier, no I do not feel it's necessary to rank schools at all. If you are interested in a particular area, check it out for yourself and decide if you like it. School lousy or not, it really comes down to the education values you instill in your children.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by dman72

..and in districts like Great Neck more students take the AP exams than don't because of parental pressure on the school district. That doesn't mean those students do better on the Ap exams than students in some middle of the road district, it just means the parents are more uppity.

Uppity isn't the best description. I graduated Plainedge where most families were blue collar or small business owners. Those of us who had the ability to qualify for AP classes and subsequent testing did so -- why let any opportunity pass one by? Most of our parents were far from uppity.

Areas where there are more professionals who have been through the college application rat race are well aware that every edge is necessary. I see many parents like that who have either truly talented and motivated students, or who have to push their children. There are certainly uppity types here in 3V -- no sugar coating.

I think the word demanding might work a little better than uppity. My experience has been that the people with more money and more education are more demanding in their expectations from the district.

[CoolaTroopa]

Originally Posted by dman72

Again, SAT scores, Regents scores, students going on to 4 year colleges, etc.

True. A combination of all of these factors would be best.
It's been hard to find such a ranking which actually does that too- probably because it's too time-consuming to actually make one.
I certainly don't have the time to make a ranking based on that- lol.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Uppity isn't the best description. I graduated Plainedge where most families were blue collar or small business owners. Those of us who had the ability to qualify for AP classes and subsequent testing did so -- why let any opportunity pass one by? Most of our parents were far from uppity.

Areas where there are more professionals who have been through the college application rat race are well aware that every edge is necessary. I see many parents like that who have either truly talented and motivated students, or who have to push their children. There are certainly uppity types here in 3V -- no sugar coating.

I think the word demanding might work a little better than uppity. My experience has been that the people with more money and more education are more demanding in their expectations from the district.

I know a teacher in Great Neck. Every parent with a middle of the road kid there thinks he/she is a genius and should be taking every AP course, even when it is plain as day that their child is not cut out to achieve on those tests, and they inevitably don't. Doesn't really matter to the kid, though, he's driving to school in a BMW while the teacher is in a Honda.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by CoolaTroopa

True. A combination of all of these factors would be best.
It's been hard to find such a ranking which actually does that too- probably because it's too time-consuming to actually make one.
I certainly don't have the time to make a ranking based on that- lol.

Take the website I linked to, and then make spreadsheet weighing that ranking to the SAT score list..I could do it in about 20 Minutes. The lists are pretty close, actually.

Hey, Bellport did better on SAT's, Mr. Bellport, wherever you are.

[CoolaTroopa]

Originally Posted by dman72

I know a teacher in Great Neck. Every parent with a middle of the road kid there thinks he/she is a genius and should be taking every AP course, even when it is plain as day that their child is not cut out to achieve on those tests, and they inevitably don't. Doesn't really matter to the kid, though, he's driving to school in a BMW while the teacher is in a Honda.

That's the problem with ranking by AP classes.
I'll use the Cold Spring Harbor example again where approx. 80% of students take AP's like Economics and US History but only 50% get passing grades.. because only 50% of them should have been taking them in the first place!
My friend admittedly has a tendency to overexaggerate but from what he said, I'm guessing there was a high percentage getting 1's and 2's.

[CoolaTroopa]

Originally Posted by dman72

Take the website I linked to, and then make spreadsheet weighing that ranking to the SAT score list..I could do it in about 20 Minutes. The lists are pretty close, actually.

Hey, Bellport did better on SAT's, Mr. Bellport, wherever you are.

Thanks! I can only get the 2001 rankings for free but they do seem very close..

Oceanside is lower than expected though (a school ranked pretty high in SATs).. I know the district was great in the 90's!
I heard Oceanside was getting worse for a while but is getting better again now.