Getting POUNDED tonight (Elmont, Garden City, Hyde Park: renter, closing, taxi)

[azzurrony]

Samyn,

I thought the construction on 13R/31L must have begun. That along with "south" winds has given us a "pounding" the past week. Westbury and GC have been hit particularly hard.

I use "south" in quotes because clearly wind direction is not always indicative of runway choice. The FAA clearly picks those based on air traffic patterns at the other airports.

Last week...on three separate nights we had about 10-12 flyovers at approximately 5am. These were planes that were 1,900 feet above our neighborhood. Now, perhaps it's not a quality of life issue for everyone, but I was woken up at 5am on all three occasions. As you know, not all jets are built the same. Some have engines that are extremely loud. Frankly this is unacceptable, and it violates the gentlemen's agreement that the Port Authority had with communities on the island not to fly over from 11pm to 7am.

As construction to cement runway 31L/13R begins, I'm really concerned that runway 22L will become a dumping ground for arrivals.

[azzurrony]

Rocafeller,

Exactly right. Runway 22L was originally meant just as a backup runway to only be used when the airport was at its busiest. So, our communities didn't really notice it much since volume at JFK was reasonable. The massive increase in the volume of flights to JFK means that Runway 22L takes on a more prominent role, and we suffer for it.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by WJFM

While some many snort at this issue as insignificant, I understand why this is a quality of life issue. We did not buy a house in the suburbs to 'close our windows' and sit in our homes. We all have yards and ourdoor areas we would like to enjoy with friends and family without planes drowning out every other sentence. When did living in NYC suburb equal to "no quiet time in your backyard".

It may not be as serious as the healthcare debate, but who said we should be worried about only one issue at a time?

Rather than 100s of people calling govt officials, the right way to do it is to organize the 100s under one umbrella and have one person represent the 100s so they can work to find solutions and give proper feedback. If you get organized and get a sympathetic ear in the federal govt, your cause might take off the ground.

You do not live in the suburbs..you are urban in density and then some.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/images/air_ima...hrpm25fig5.jpg
(Note the sea of red from 2000: Nassau = Queens and Suffolk = Nassau...Im sure 2010 wont be pretty either)

Deal with it.

Its just a price to pay for being close to the worlds greatest City.

Welcome to 6th Borough.

Crooks

[Jetties]

I found this link to an artucle from 2007. It doesnt focus on flight routes only but does talk about some of the issues facing JFK at the time: Problems at JFK ripple through U.S. aviation - USATODAY.com

Some of the highlights:

The patchwork of air routes available to jets over New York, last updated 20 years ago, requires controllers to put aircrafts in holding patterns nearly every day because they simply run out of room. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is trying to revamp the flight lanes, but the effort faces intense opposition from local communities concerned about increasing noise in several areas. Opposition could delay the FAA's effort for years.

-Airline competition has helped to clog JFK. During the past two years, Delta Air Lines has sharply increased flights as the number of international flights also has risen.
Officials at JetBlue, the 7-year-old carrier that has become JFK's leading airline, carrying 11.6 million passengers into and out of the airport, have taken the unusual step of endorsing limits on flights because they say that at peak times, airlines are scheduling more flights than JFK can handle.

-The prospect of rerouting aircraft across the region has created bitter opposition. Public meetings on the plan have been contentious. Virtually no elected official in the region has endorsed the idea.
The FAA has concluded that the number of people affected by noise from aircraft would drop because of plans to keep more planes over the ocean, rivers and highways, but some communities that rarely hear aircraft noise would get more of it.

[crv1010]

I live in Mineola and we have been getting pounded especially starting at 5PM ish every day. This past Sunday it went on from midnight on. This is totally unfair. We need to get our Village, Town & County Officials involved.

Write your Congressperson and our 2 Senators and don't settle for them just forwarding your letter to the FAA. Ask the Congressman/Senator what their position on this matter is & what action will be taken.

*This is a quality of life issue

*It reduces the value of our homes

*Its dangerous (Cove Neck & Buffalo had plane crashes upon approach) & plane parts fell onto buildings in College Point Queens last year.

*Its unhealthy, increasing amounts of pollutants from burned jet fuel


I found a number to complain about noise to the FAA Eastern Region (718) 553-3365

Anyone have a Port Authority phone number for noise complaints?

Old Westbury, East Williston & Albertson are also getting pounded...lets get those Village & Town elected officials involved!

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

I've only lived in GC for close to a year, but my neighbors believe the patterns have gotten worse over the last 5 yrs or so.

Historically, Floral Park was always abused by JFK. Then in the mid-70's a new flight path to the east was opened up and this included Stewart Manor and GC. However, the path over LI was only supposed to be used when all other runways were busy.

Now, given the increase in commercial traffic at JFK, there was no place for the planes to go at their busiest times. So, they flew over Nassau.

I can accept this. What I will not accept is that the same towns get pounded over and over while others escape. There is not equitable distribution. Unfortunately, the apathetic people of Floral Park and GC have not united the way other communities in NJ and Rockland County have. So, we continue to get abused in spite of my incessant letters to the FAA, Port Authority, and our esteemed Congresswoman Carolyn "I'm only in office because my husband was shot" McCarthy.

I am really pulling my hair out tonight! The same communities get pounded over and over again, every freakin plane since last night has gone right over Westbury, practically right over my house.
For those who dont understand, it's like someone built an airport in the next town without any oversight or community input. Why does every single plane have to fly at 2500 feet or less over the same area every single day.
And the winds were from the NW today, it didn't matter. I'm really going crazy. How much does it cost to put in soundproofing? That's what I may have to do, because I cant bear hearing roaring whining jet engines every 2 minutes.
I wish McCarthy would be subject to this punishment. Just fly the damn planes higher and vary the route. They do it at EWR apparently. Uh...here comes another one. Must be 100s of planes everyday passing overhead.
LI'ers are apethtic, thats why LI is doomed.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by SuffolkGuy

You live in Westbury. Not far from an airport. Get over it and stop whining. Why'd you buy a house there?? You're like those idiots who buy a house next to the RR tracks, or along the expressway and then complain about noise. It was there before you came, and it'll be there after you're gone.

The FAA decided to change the routes and put more planes over my town, without any input. I am not a NIMBY, I definately dont support the way these towns are blocking a 3rd track. And BTW, I used to live right near the mainline tracks and it never bothered me. These planes are LOUD and CONSTANT. It's easy to say how I'm a whiner, why not come here and deal with it? The FAA could someday dump planes on your town. And you wont be able to do a damn thing about it.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by rocafeller05

So when did the pattern change? And why? I remember the planes always landing at JFK from the south, from the Atlantic.

That used to be the way things were, but then the FAA decided to have full time routing over Nassau, regardless of wind. It may have to do with JFK runway construction, but there's no need to have such a low approach battering the same neighborhoods over and over again.
Even earlier this year, the planes used to go over Greenvale and Roslyn more, now they just go over Westbury.
The ocean routing makes the most sense, but the FAA doesn't care.

[Johninwestbury]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Death panels? Isn't that complaint a little premature? Wait ... maybe you are talking about HMOs declining coverage left and right.

He didn't move near the airport. When I think of places where people who complain about airport noise on LI like Westbury and Garden City, I don't think "they are right on top of the airport." I live right on top of JFK and I don't complain (too much) because I actually did move near the airport and knew it could be an issue.

Exactly!

[samyn on the green]

The construction on 13R/31L began last week. RWY 13R/31L has been closed every night. Soon it will be closed all the time until repairs are completed.

Arrivals on 22L are best for ATC because use of that runway helps facilitate arrivals at EWR and LGA, while keeping JFK departures away from JFK arrivals. Winds favor 22L arrivals from spring into autumn.

If you feel you are getting pounded unfairly is is likely that you live directly under the localizer radial for runway 22L. That localizer has been there since the 1960's, since the runway has not moved it has always been a strait line from the runway to your house. Airplanes approach the runway in a strait line all over the world. Runways that have last minute turns have higher weather minimums and require greater separation between arrivals. With all of the current air traffic delays and logjams it would be suicide to further clog the system by shutting down approaches to the JFK 22 runways.

Winds are the primary driver of airport configuration and heavy winds over 10 knots require that a certain runway will be used. From the late afternoon to the early morning there is a consistent sea breeze that makes runway 22L the preferred arrival runway. Notice how this runway usually begins accepting arrivals at around 4PM every day when the sea breeze kicks up. When winds are under 10 knots there is some flexibility on runway configuration.


The good news for the people that live under the JFK runway 22L localizer is that as winter arrives the winds will favor runway 31R more often and arrivals be directed onto that runway or even arrivals on runway 4L if winds are stiffly out of the north. You will see more departures from RWY 4L this winter which will place departures over Nassau all day and night.

here is tonights ATIS

JFK ATIS INFO E 0251Z. 29009KT 10SM FEW080 15/06 A2998 (TWO NINER NINER EIGHT). APPROACH IN USE ILS RY 22L. DEPG RY 22R. NOTAMS... RWY 13R, 31L CLSD, RWY 13L, 31R CLSD. BIRD ACTIVITY VICINITY ARPT. AS DEE EX IN SERVICE. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATE TRANN SPONDERS WITH MODE CEE ON ALL TAXIWAYS AND RUNWAYS. READ BACK ALL ASSIGNED ALTITUDES. READBACK ALL RWY HOLD SHORT INSTRUCTIONS. IN THE INTEREST OF NOISE ABATE MENT PLEASE USE ASSIGNED RY. ...ADVS YOU HAVE INFO E.

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Samyn,

I thought the construction on 13R/31L must have begun. That along with "south" winds has given us a "pounding" the past week. Westbury and GC have been hit particularly hard.

I use "south" in quotes because clearly wind direction is not always indicative of runway choice. The FAA clearly picks those based on air traffic patterns at the other airports.

Last week...on three separate nights we had about 10-12 flyovers at approximately 5am. These were planes that were 1,900 feet above our neighborhood. Now, perhaps it's not a quality of life issue for everyone, but I was woken up at 5am on all three occasions. As you know, not all jets are built the same. Some have engines that are extremely loud. Frankly this is unacceptable, and it violates the gentlemen's agreement that the Port Authority had with communities on the island not to fly over from 11pm to 7am.

As construction to cement runway 31L/13R begins, I'm really concerned that runway 22L will become a dumping ground for arrivals.