Yankees vs Phillies (buying, college, design)

[azzurrony]

SIB

Re: Penguins

Using your logic, we'd have to discount any great team that had number 1 picks and nailed them. That's ridiculous. Moreover, this system is the exact thing that helps bring parity to the league. (See how baseball fails in this regard below.) On top of that, you ignore the great moves pulled off by the organization. You can't win with Malkin and Crosby alone. Lemieux is a great owner. Shero had the balls to bring up Bylsma to run that team from Wilkes Barre/Scranton. The organization brought in through trades, draft, and free agency: Fedotenko, Guerin, Adams, Scuderi, Gill, Letang, Kunitz, Gonchar, Fluery. They did this all while staying under the cap. They built a hell of a team. It's more than just 2 players.

Re: Pirates

I've never denied their bad drafts. They are horrible. The team is badly managed from the ownership on down. However, you cannot ignore the fact they are purposefully failing to draft certain top prospects because they can't afford them. Money is THE issue. You conveniently failed to mention that baseball's draft is very different from the NFL. In the NFL, teams RARELY pass on a blue chip player for money reasons. Detroit's not doing to well financially and yet they sign Stafford for a zillion dollars. Why? Because NFL teams have absolute rights on their draft picks. They have way more leverage over them...either sign with us or you don't play.

That's VERY different from baseball. In baseball if you don't sign your draft picks...you lose their rights and they go back into the draft the next year. Effectively, this creates a system where the teams with less money almost have to avoid drafting high priced draft picks. What's the point of taking that risk if you don't have the cash to sign them?

That system is pathetic. No salary caps + Stupid draft system + Horrible revenue sharing = No parity. I'm not so sure why you are so keen on defending this broken system, aside from the fact that it benefits your particular team.

[S.I.B.]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

SIB

Re: Penguins

Using your logic, we'd have to discount any great team that had number 1 picks and nailed them.

where did I say you should "discount them"? Is my point that difficult to understand? I'm simply saying don't tell me it was "outstanding ownership, general management, scouting, coaching" in the case of the Penguins. It's also kind of funny how you portray it as "nailing" the picks. As if ANY other team would have picked somebody other than Crosby.

That's ridiculous. Moreover, this system is the exact thing that helps bring parity to the league. (See how baseball fails in this regard below.) On top of that, you ignore the great moves pulled off by the organization. You can't win with Malkin and Crosby alone. Lemieux is a great owner. Shero had the balls to bring up Bylsma to run that team from Wilkes Barre/Scranton. The organization brought in through trades, draft, and free agency: Fedotenko, Guerin, Adams, Scuderi, Gill, Letang, Kunitz, Gonchar, Fluery. They did this all while staying under the cap. They built a hell of a team. It's more than just 2 players.

you're talking about 2 of the top 5 players in the league. Put them on any team with a decent coach and competent players and you have a contender. The NHL isn't quite the NBA when it comes to stars having a huge impact, but it's close...especially when it comes to playmakers who make their teams better.

Re: Pirates

I've never denied their bad drafts. They are horrible. The team is badly managed from the ownership on down. However, you cannot ignore the fact they are purposefully failing to draft certain top prospects because they can't afford them. Money is THE issue.

how can that be true when plenty of small market teams NAIL their draft picks year after year?

You conveniently failed to mention that baseball's draft is very different from the NFL. In the NFL, teams RARELY pass on a blue chip player for money reasons. Detroit's not doing to well financially and yet they sign Stafford for a zillion dollars. Why? Because NFL teams have absolute rights on their draft picks. They have way more leverage over them...either sign with us or you don't play.

That's VERY different from baseball. In baseball if you don't sign your draft picks...you lose their rights and they go back into the draft the next year.

um, it's the same in the NFL. I don't think you know as much about this as you think you do.

Effectively, this creates a system where the teams with less money almost have to avoid drafting high priced draft picks. What's the point of taking that risk if you don't have the cash to sign them?

That system is pathetic. No salary caps + Stupid draft system + Horrible revenue sharing = No parity. I'm not so sure why you are so keen on defending this broken system, aside from the fact that it benefits your particular team.

I've stated in this very thread that the system needs to be improved. It's just that your arguments for other sports and against baseball are littered with so many erroneous assumptions...

[hotkarl]

I'm tellin' ya, if I hear that stupid Jay Z/Alecia Keys NY song just one more time,
I'm going to gouge out my ear drums with a dull ice pick.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by S.I.B.

um, it's the same in the NFL. I don't think you know as much about this as you think you do.


I

Except in the NFL a hard salary cap makes paying one player 20 million dollars a financial impossibility if you can't field a team with what's left over. In baseball, overpaying one player by the Yankees has no effect on what they will pay the next Mussina or A Rod that comes down the pike..they have so much revenue that they could turn profit even with a 400 million dollar payroll. Likewise with the draft, on team is not going to pay some gun 5 times what another team can afford, because to do so what kill what they can spend elsewhere.

[azzurrony]

You're effectively trying to argue that the Penguins success was dumb luck, as if the front office had to do very little. I've explained everything they had to put in place, from the coach on down to the goalie. Having 2 amazing players on their team doesn't erase the great work that ownership did in saving the team (from financial ruin) and making them into a champion again.

Actually, it's not the same in the NFL. In MLB, you have 2 months to sign your pick. In the NFL, you have a year. After a certain point, if the player doesn't sign, they lose out on huge bonuses and salary. Did you ever wonder why no one in the NFL fails to sign their draft picks? That's why. Very different from baseball.

What's erroneous about baseball's poor draft system, horrible collective bargaining agreement, failure to have a salary cap, and no real revenue sharing? There's nothing erroneous about my assumptions and the results are clear...there's a huge gap between the haves and the have nots in baseball.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by hotkarl

I'm tellin' ya, if I hear that stupid Jay Z/Alecia Keys NY song just one more time,
I'm going to gouge out my ear drums with a dull ice pick.

Agreed that one jumped the shark pretty quick.

[zulu400]

MLB sucks bigtime and the Yankees are the Premier Team in that league. Its as simple as that.

Popularity wise Baseball is not number 1, and its declining slowly over the past few decades, no wonder its called the national "pastime", which means after doing the things that you love to do, if you have time to pass, then you can watch baseball !!

Just because people are watching baseball when nothing else is going on makes people think that its a choice that the viewer has made to watch it over say football or basketball.

[sickofnyc99]

All I know is that I hope that after today I hope the Yankees never win another WS again. The amount of drunk, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging "fans" on the train this morning was staggering. Yelling across the car, cursing and the like. Now I'm all for a party but I think the 7:07 might be a little early to start working on that case of Keystone light. Give me St.Patty's any day compared to this garbage.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by sickofnyc99

All I know is that I hope that after today I hope the Yankees never win another WS again. The amount of drunk, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging "fans" on the train this morning was staggering. Yelling across the car, cursing and the like. Now I'm all for a party but I think the 7:07 might be a little early to start working on that case of Keystone light. Give me St.Patty's any day compared to this garbage.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh Yankees win.

[sickofnyc99]

Originally Posted by Crookhaven

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh Yankees win.

My head still hurts. They should have the parade in Philly. Just to rub it in.