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I wasnt really getting at whole towns (like Town of Oyster Bay) becoming large cities but how a place like Long Beach is a "City" and Hempstead is not.
That is true, especially considering that the Village of Hempstead is the most populated village in the entire country. Most villages usually only have like 5 - 6,000 people at most ... Hempstead Village has 56,500 as of the 2000 Census.
Even a community like West Islip (with 27,000 people) could classify as a small city in some states.
In NYS, size of population does not determine if a community is a city or town, and within a town, if a community is a village or hamlet.
Glen Cove (Jan. 1, 2008 LIPA pop. est. = 27,564) seceded from the Town of Oyster Bay and became a city in 1918. Prior to that date, Glen Cove was a hamlet in the Town of Oyster Bay, initially in Queens County until January 1, 1899, and since then in Nassau County. Before it was called Glen Cove, the hamlet was called Musketa Cove.
Long Beach (Jan. 1, 2008 LIPA pop. 41,389 est. = 36,051) seceded from the Town of Hempstead and became a city in 1922. Prior to that date, Long Beach was a village (incorporated in 1918) and prior to that, Long Beach was a hamlet in the Town of Hempstead, initially in Queens County until January 1, 1899, and since then in Nassau County.
On the same date, Jan. 1, 2008, the LIPA pop. est. for the Village of Hempstead in the Town of Hempstead was 53,786 and for the Hamlet of Hicksville in the Town of Oyster Bay was 41,389.
The Jan. 1, 2008, LIPA pop. est. for the Town of Hempstead in Nassau County was 765,234 and for the Town of Brookhaven in Suffolk County was 491,035.
The Jan. 1, 2008, LIPA pop. est. for Nassau County was 1,356,729 and for Suffolk County was 1,508,602.
because it allows us to have a gross duplication of services, tons of fire chiefs, school priniciples, water district supervisors and so many other things. That's why we pay so much more to live here. Plus most of Long Island is still pretty racist and I can name at least ten towns that would not want to be lumped together with the neighboring towns.
Glen Cove (Jan. 1, 2008 LIPA pop. est. = 27,564) seceded from the Town of Oyster Bay and became a city in 1918. Prior to that date, Glen Cove was a hamlet in the Town of Oyster Bay, initially in Queens County until January 1, 1899, and since then in Nassau County. Before it was called Glen Cove, the hamlet was called Musketa Cove.
Long Beach (Jan. 1, 2008 LIPA pop. 41,389 est. = 36,051) seceded from the Town of Hempstead and became a city in 1922. Prior to that date, Long Beach was a village (incorporated in 1918) and prior to that, Long Beach was a hamlet in the Town of Hempstead, initially in Queens County until January 1, 1899, and since then in Nassau County.
Thank you for the info. So they actually seceded from the towns? It would be interesting to know what went into the decisions in both cases and why no other hamlets have done so in about 88 years.
Thank you for the info. So they actually seceded from the towns? It would be interesting to know what went into the decisions in both cases and why no other hamlets have done so in about 88 years.
There was a discussion about this on here another time, but I just looked and I can't find it....I dunno if it was ever really answered either - BUT I'm pretty sure (and I believe Walter knows more about this) that in the three Nassau County towns there is legislation on the books that makes it almost impossible for an unincorporated area to become a village or city. I'm also pretty sure that it was a direct result of so many communities in the Town of North Hempstead, and specifically on the Great Neck Peninsula, incorporating and taking some tax revenue away from the town in the 1930s.
Since the 1930s, there has only been one community to incorporate in Nassau, and that was Atlantic Beach in 1961. That may or may not have something to do with the fact that most of Atlantic Beach is located on land that didn't exist before the big hurricane in 1938 left a sand spit attached to the west end of Long Beach Island. Before that, Lawrence (in the 5 Towns) actually fronted the Atlantic Ocean like Far Rockaway does today. Again, this is really me talking out of my ass right now, but Atlantic Beach had to have some kinda loophole like that which allowed it's incorporation while no other community in Nassau (even wealthy, Gold Coast places like Locust Valley, Oyster Bay and Port Washington) has done the same in almost 80 years!
There have been more recent villages created in Suffolk. AFAIK the newest is Sagaponack in the Town of Southampton (c. 2005).
Sometime in the 1990s, the population requirement for the creation of a village became 500 permanent residents. Strangely enough, there is no minimum population requirement for the formation of a city in New York, but then again I don't think a new city has been created since before WWII.
A lot of people think that city or village governments result in higher property taxes because they provide "extra" services, but it isn't true at all....in fact, in several cases the opposite is true. When a village provides something that the town or county normally would (like police or trash removal), you don't pay "double" the taxes, you just pay that portion of your taxes to the village instead of the town or county. In some cases it's cheaper, in some cases it isn't - but generally it all evens out. I think most people just assume they're paying more than their unincorporated neighbors cuz they get an extra tax bill each year, not realizing that the village/city services have already been deducted from their town/county one.
Someone earlier mentioned Hempstead as the largest village in NYS. In that case, Levittown surely has to be the largest unincorporated community - 53,067 residents. Long Island also has the smallest village in population - Dering Harbor, Town of Shelter Island (Pop. 13) - and the smallest village in size - South Floral Park, Town of Hempstead (0.1 sq. miles). West Hampton Dunes (Town of Southampton) had a population of only 11 at the time of the 2000 Census, but has grown considerably since then.
I used to have a list of places with the highest population density too, but I can't find it now. I'm pretty sure that Great Neck Plaza was the densest village and Bellerose Terrace the densest hamlet in New York. Both well over 20,000 people per square mile.
If the Town of Hempstead were to become a city, it would be the 14th most populous city in the United States, and also the 2nd most populous city in New York State....by a large margin. There are more people living in the Town of Hempstead than there are in such major American cities as Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Atlanta or Austin (as well as several others). It has roughly 50,000 less residents than San Fransisco and a higher population than St. Louis and Cincinnati combined. It also has a higher population than the entire states of Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont or Wyoming. The population density is on par with Los Angeles (America's 2nd most populous city) and is higher than virtually every major city in the nation.
Maybe we should become a city? These are really crazy, staggering numbers to think about....
There was a discussion about this on here another time, but I just looked and I can't find it....I dunno if it was ever really answered either - BUT I'm pretty sure (and I believe Walter knows more about this) that in the three Nassau County towns there is legislation on the books that makes it almost impossible for an unincorporated area to become a village or city. I'm also pretty sure that it was a direct result of so many communities in the Town of North Hempstead, and specifically on the Great Neck Peninsula, incorporating and taking some tax revenue away from the town in the 1930s.
Since the 1930s, there has only been one community to incorporate in Nassau, and that was Atlantic Beach in 1961. That may or may not have something to do with the fact that most of Atlantic Beach is located on land that didn't exist before the big hurricane in 1938 left a sand spit attached to the west end of Long Beach Island. Before that, Lawrence (in the 5 Towns) actually fronted the Atlantic Ocean like Far Rockaway does today. Again, this is really me talking out of my ass right now, but Atlantic Beach had to have some kinda loophole like that which allowed it's incorporation while no other community in Nassau (even wealthy, Gold Coast places like Locust Valley, Oyster Bay and Port Washington) has done the same in almost 80 years!
There have been more recent villages created in Suffolk. AFAIK the newest is Sagaponack in the Town of Southampton (c. 2005).
Sometime in the 1990s, the population requirement for the creation of a village became 500 permanent residents. Strangely enough, there is no minimum population requirement for the formation of a city in New York, but then again I don't think a new city has been created since before WWII.
A lot of people think that city or village governments result in higher property taxes because they provide "extra" services, but it isn't true at all....in fact, in several cases the opposite is true. When a village provides something that the town or county normally would (like police or trash removal), you don't pay "double" the taxes, you just pay that portion of your taxes to the village instead of the town or county. In some cases it's cheaper, in some cases it isn't - but generally it all evens out. I think most people just assume they're paying more than their unincorporated neighbors cuz they get an extra tax bill each year, not realizing that the village/city services have already been deducted from their town/county one.
Someone earlier mentioned Hempstead as the largest village in NYS. In that case, Levittown surely has to be the largest unincorporated community - 53,067 residents. Long Island also has the smallest village in population - Dering Harbor, Town of Shelter Island (Pop. 13) - and the smallest village in size - South Floral Park, Town of Hempstead (0.1 sq. miles). West Hampton Dunes (Town of Southampton) had a population of only 11 at the time of the 2000 Census, but has grown considerably since then.
I used to have a list of places with the highest population density too, but I can't find it now. I'm pretty sure that Great Neck Plaza was the densest village and Bellerose Terrace the densest hamlet in New York. Both well over 20,000 people per square mile.
If the Town of Hempstead were to become a city, it would be the 14th most populous city in the United States, and also the 2nd most populous city in New York State....by a large margin. There are more people living in the Town of Hempstead than there are in such major American cities as Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Atlanta or Austin (as well as several others). It has roughly 50,000 less residents than San Fransisco and a higher population than St. Louis and Cincinnati combined. It also has a higher population than the entire states of Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont or Wyoming. The population density is on par with Los Angeles (America's 2nd most populous city) and is higher than virtually every major city in the nation.
Maybe we should become a city? These are really crazy, staggering numbers to think about....
Thank you for adding that. Very interesting stuff that I never really thought much about before.
BUT I'm pretty sure (and I believe Walter knows more about this) that in the three Nassau County towns there is legislation on the books that makes it almost impossible for an unincorporated area to become a village or city.
sean sean sean sean, the reason that Atlantic Beach was the only village to incorporate after the 1939 Nassau County Charter revision is that the 1939 Nassau County Charter revision took zoning control away from any village formed after that date. So, for many a year, until about 10 years ago, the Village of Atlantic Beach was the only village in Nassau County, and maybe in all of New York State, that did not have local zoning control.
It was, and is, this inability to have local zoning control, the prime reason to form a village, that has kept other areas from incorporating as villages.
About 10 years, or so, ago, the Town of Hempstead gave local zoning control to the Village of Atlantic Beach. I don't think that either the Town of North Hempstead or the Town of Oyster Bay have passed similar local ordinances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean
I'm also pretty sure that it was a direct result of so many communities in the Town of North Hempstead, and specifically on the Great Neck Peninsula, incorporating and taking some tax revenue away from the town in the 1930s.
The Town of North Hempstead is the only one of the 13 towns on Lawn Guyland were the majority of the area and the majority of the population is in a village. There are 30 villages and 18 hamlets all or partly in the Town of North Hempstead. (Riverhead is the only town without a single village. There was a village, first incorporated as the Village of Sound Avenue in 1921 and later changed to Northville in 1927, but the community unincorporated as a village in 1939 and became the Hamlet of Northville.)
There was a discussion about this on here another time, but I just looked and I can't find it....I dunno if it was ever really answered either - BUT I'm pretty sure (and I believe Walter knows more about this) that in the three Nassau County towns there is legislation on the books that makes it almost impossible for an unincorporated area to become a village or city. I'm also pretty sure that it was a direct result of so many communities in the Town of North Hempstead, and specifically on the Great Neck Peninsula, incorporating and taking some tax revenue away from the town in the 1930s.
Since the 1930s, there has only been one community to incorporate in Nassau, and that was Atlantic Beach in 1961. That may or may not have something to do with the fact that most of Atlantic Beach is located on land that didn't exist before the big hurricane in 1938 left a sand spit attached to the west end of Long Beach Island. Before that, Lawrence (in the 5 Towns) actually fronted the Atlantic Ocean like Far Rockaway does today. Again, this is really me talking out of my ass right now, but Atlantic Beach had to have some kinda loophole like that which allowed it's incorporation while no other community in Nassau (even wealthy, Gold Coast places like Locust Valley, Oyster Bay and Port Washington) has done the same in almost 80 years!
There have been more recent villages created in Suffolk. AFAIK the newest is Sagaponack in the Town of Southampton (c. 2005).
Sometime in the 1990s, the population requirement for the creation of a village became 500 permanent residents. Strangely enough, there is no minimum population requirement for the formation of a city in New York, but then again I don't think a new city has been created since before WWII.
A lot of people think that city or village governments result in higher property taxes because they provide "extra" services, but it isn't true at all....in fact, in several cases the opposite is true. When a village provides something that the town or county normally would (like police or trash removal), you don't pay "double" the taxes, you just pay that portion of your taxes to the village instead of the town or county. In some cases it's cheaper, in some cases it isn't - but generally it all evens out. I think most people just assume they're paying more than their unincorporated neighbors cuz they get an extra tax bill each year, not realizing that the village/city services have already been deducted from their town/county one.
Someone earlier mentioned Hempstead as the largest village in NYS. In that case, Levittown surely has to be the largest unincorporated community - 53,067 residents. Long Island also has the smallest village in population - Dering Harbor, Town of Shelter Island (Pop. 13) - and the smallest village in size - South Floral Park, Town of Hempstead (0.1 sq. miles). West Hampton Dunes (Town of Southampton) had a population of only 11 at the time of the 2000 Census, but has grown considerably since then.
I used to have a list of places with the highest population density too, but I can't find it now. I'm pretty sure that Great Neck Plaza was the densest village and Bellerose Terrace the densest hamlet in New York. Both well over 20,000 people per square mile.
If the Town of Hempstead were to become a city, it would be the 14th most populous city in the United States, and also the 2nd most populous city in New York State....by a large margin. There are more people living in the Town of Hempstead than there are in such major American cities as Baltimore, Boston, Seattle, Washington D.C., Atlanta or Austin (as well as several others). It has roughly 50,000 less residents than San Fransisco and a higher population than St. Louis and Cincinnati combined. It also has a higher population than the entire states of Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont or Wyoming. The population density is on par with Los Angeles (America's 2nd most populous city) and is higher than virtually every major city in the nation.
Maybe we should become a city? These are really crazy, staggering numbers to think about....
Where do you drink on a weekend? I'd like to drink with you and chat about LI. Actually, you, me, dman72 and azzurony should meet up sometime.
because it allows us to have a gross duplication of services, tons of fire chiefs, school priniciples, water district supervisors and so many other things. That's why we pay so much more to live here. Plus most of Long Island is still pretty racist and I can name at least ten towns that would not want to be lumped together with the neighboring towns.
Good point.
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