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I'm a conservative. I voted for Mangano and generally support him. However, even one 500k payout is too much for this county. I would have liked Mangano to tackle this problem in other ways. I know what he's trying to do. He wants to pull some of the fat off payroll and get young blood in under the tiered pension system.
I understand your point about those potential retirees having "earned" what they are going to get. However, the negotiations you speak of were horribly skewed in favor of the unions when the rules were being set in place. These collective bargaining agreements were not done in an arms length manner. The politicians of both parties were not using their best efforts to fight for the taxpayer and get the best deal possible for the county. They simply were not.
So, while these payments are not illegal, and perhaps not even unethical, they were formed on the basis of one-sided collective bargaining negotiations. That's a problem we can't ignore.
I'm a conservative. I voted for Mangano and generally support him. However, even one 500k payout is too much for this county. I would have liked Mangano to tackle this problem in other ways. I know what he's trying to do. He wants to pull some of the fat off payroll and get young blood in under the tiered pension system.
I understand your point about those potential retirees having "earned" what they are going to get. However, the negotiations you speak of were horribly skewed in favor of the unions when the rules were being set in place. These collective bargaining agreements were not done in an arms length manner. The politicians of both parties were not using their best efforts to fight for the taxpayer and get the best deal possible for the county. They simply were not.
So, while these payments are not illegal, and perhaps not even unethical, they were formed on the basis of one-sided collective bargaining negotiations. That's a problem we can't ignore.
Here's the thing: The unused accruals are basically part of a benefits package, just like anywhere else. Yes, unions negotiate for benefits packages, but you know what? As with the private sector, if you want qualified, dedicated, responsible people to do a job and have little to no turnover (which is expensive), you have to make it palatable to them.
If you want qualified, dedicated, responsible people to do a particularly risky job dealing with the worst society has to offer, in a crappy environment (literally!) in buildings with lousy ventilation and heaven only knows what growing in the air ducts, with plumbing that is the next best thing to an outhouse, and constant exposure to things like MRSA, H1N1, and HIV, then guess what? You're going to have to make it palatable to them. Given that the work itself is entirely less than pleasant, and given the conditions in which the work is done and with whom it's done and the risks entailed--risks that sometimes come home to the family (see: MRSA, etc. above)--your remaining options for making the job palatable are money and benefits. Decent money and good benefits.
You may not like it, but that's the way it is. Personally, you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop or a CO. Never mind the violence. It's just too gross, in plain English.
Last edited by Yzette; 04-28-2010 at 03:03 PM..
Reason: Typos, grrrr...
The payouts are described as incentives( $1000 to $1500) for each year of service, if this was already part of the union contract whast did Mangano negotiate?
Its two somewhat different issues.
During the mid and late 90's when Gullotta was County Executive the agreements reached with unions resulted in explosions in some of the payouts. Some officers left the force with $400,000- $500,000 just to retire (in addition to the pension which in some cases is $100,000 + a year, though those costs are handled by the state).
When Suozzi had the opportunity to renegotiate the contracts with the unions, he was able to get some concessions including putting caps on a retiring officer's compensation package (at two years of salary). The concessions he got weren't quite as large as what he wanted, but did put an end to those payouts approaching $500,000.
What Mangano recently did was he rolled back some of the concessions Suozzi reached a few years ago with the Unions. He removed the two year pay cap on compensation, which will result in the $400,000- $500,000 payouts once again.
The $1,000 - $1,500 incentive package is something a bit different. Last year Suozzi reached an incentive package with the CSEA Union for retiring members. Anyone who was part of that Union that retired from the county workforce would receive $1,000 for every year on the job. Mangano's package goes a bit further. It increases the incentive package from $1,000 to $1,500 and it applies to all Unions.
During the mid and late 90's when Gullotta was County Executive the agreements reached with unions resulted in explosions in some of the payouts. Some officers left the force with $400,000- $500,000 just to retire (in addition to the pension which in some cases is $100,000 + a year, though those costs are handled by the state).
When Suozzi had the opportunity to renegotiate the contracts with the unions, he was able to get some concessions including putting caps on a retiring officer's compensation package (at two years of salary). The concessions he got weren't quite as large as what he wanted, but did put an end to those payouts approaching $500,000.
What Mangano recently did was he rolled back some of the concessions Suozzi reached a few years ago with the Unions. He removed the two year pay cap on compensation, which will result in the $400,000- $500,000 payouts once again.
The $1,000 - $1,500 incentive package is something a bit different. Last year Suozzi reached an incentive package with the CSEA Union for retiring members. Anyone who was part of that Union that retired from the county workforce would receive $1,000 for every year on the job. Mangano's package goes a bit further. It increases the incentive package from $1,000 to $1,500 and it applies to all Unions.
Your extreme unhappiness with the November elections in which Suozzi and Mejias were sent packing puts your comments on this and other matters in very clear context.
Your extreme unhappiness with the November elections in which Suozzi and Mejias were sent packing puts your comments on this and other matters in very clear context.
While I had a strong feeling Mangano was going to pull this crap prior to him being elected, this has nothing to do with the elections. Also nowhere on this thread did I bring up the Mejias/ Belesi race, nor have I mentioned anything about it in several months.
What this is about is excessive payouts and deals going to the well connected on the backs of the taxpayers. It was a bad idea 12-15 years ago when they were implemented. It was a good idea a few years ago to get some of this stuff out of control (though perhaps not as much as we should). And its a bad idea now to go back to the late 90's way of doing things. THAT is what this is about.
While I had a strong feeling Mangano was going to pull this crap prior to him being elected, this has nothing to do with the elections. Also nowhere on this thread did I bring up the Mejias/ Belesi race, nor have I mentioned anything about it in several months.
What this is about is excessive payouts and deals going to the well connected on the backs of the taxpayers. It was a bad idea 12-15 years ago when they were implemented. It was a good idea a few years ago to get some of this stuff out of control (though perhaps not as much as we should). And its a bad idea now to go back to the late 90's way of doing things. THAT is what this is about.
Again, your opinion. Nothing more. Your bitterness with the way the election turned out is so ingrained that you can't even see it coming through your posts loud and clear. Just read your first sentence.
By the way, you still haven't addressed the issue of the Suozzi abuse of taxpayers for 8 years.
The point you are speaking to during the Gullota administration, they paid $400,000 to $500,000 as an incentive to retire (outside of the contract) or is that compensation unused vacation days, personal days, etc?
Also Mangano's incentive is $1000 to $1500 per year of service, how does that escalate to $500,000 payouts?
Either way this once again just pushes the problem down the road.
Nope. The payments have never been an incentive to retire. They have been a payout of accumulated time and leave to employees who have been allowed to bank them throughout their careers. Vacation, compensatory time, unused sick leave, etc. make up the payouts (properly called "termination pay".) It's been a feature of police contracts for since the 1970s.
The only "incentive" here is the $1000-1500 that is being offered for each year of service as an incentive to retire.
Others on this thread would have you believe that every cop is being paid $500,000 to retire. Not true, never has been true. That's nothing more than Newsday/Democratic hype.
Nope. The payments have never been an incentive to retire. They have been a payout of accumulated time and leave to employees who have been allowed to bank them throughout their careers. Vacation, compensatory time, unused sick leave, etc. make up the payouts (properly called "termination pay".) It's been a feature of police contracts for since the 1970s.
The only "incentive" here is the $1000-1500 that is being offered for each year of service as an incentive to retire.
Others on this thread would have you believe that every cop is being paid $500,000 to retire. Not true, never has been true. That's nothing more than Newsday/Democratic hype.
I never stated or tried to state that every cop is getting $500,000 to retire. However, some are. No one should be getting that much taxpayer $$$ to retire. I don't care how senior or high ranking of an official they are no one deserves that much taxpayer, especially when they have six figure pensions also of taxpayer $$$ waiting for them.
Also while those type of contracts have been around since the 70's, they went to a whole new level during the Gullotta years, resulting in these extremely large payouts to some cops. Suozzi put caps on those payouts, Mangano is removing the caps and going back to what we had under Gullotta.
Maybe you don't want the job but there is a waiting list a mile long that says otherwise. Supply and demand should result in lower salalries but not the case here. You don't like the job going in, don't take it, you want to argue poor working conditions, try NYPD or NYFD, no comparison to Nassau or Suffolk County.
I never stated or tried to state that every cop is getting $500,000 to retire. However, some are. No one should be getting that much taxpayer $$$ to retire. I don't care how senior or high ranking of an official they are no one deserves that much taxpayer, especially when they have six figure pensions also of taxpayer $$$ waiting for them.
Also while those type of contracts have been around since the 70's, they went to a whole new level during the Gullotta years, resulting in these extremely large payouts to some cops. Suozzi put caps on those payouts, Mangano is removing the caps and going back to what we had under Gullotta.
One more time, that's your opinion. You can be as outraged (and anti-Republican) as you want. Mangano's actions will save the county money. And your outrage is not going to change it.
Contrast this to your boy Suozzi who blew through millions in reserves to refurbish his offices, hire city Democrats and travel throughout the state on our dime trying (and failing badly) to get elected governor. All while raising taxes substantially, getting bailouts from NIFA and leaving Mangano with a large deficit. Yeah, Suozzi sure took care of our finances. Suozzi, the savior of Nassau County.
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