Why Do School Boards Give Teachers These Outrageous Contracts? (Herricks: moving, rich)

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by jasminescent

Yes, I should have just gone to the bureau of labor statistics directly because that link is a few years old anyway. Here this combines the public and private middle school teachers in suffolk and nassau, excluding special ed. We all know that private school teachers get paid a lot less and not many have a problem with their salaries.

Here's the average salary for May 2009 of middle school teachers, private and public, and not including special ed: $80,820
Middle School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education

Elementary school teachers in may 2009: $83,090
Elementary School Teachers, Except Special Education

Secondary school teachers in may 2009, private and public, excluding special ed: $83,560
Secondary School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education

And looks like Nassau-Suffolk surpassed everyone else by May 2009, and yes even in middle school.

If you don't provide a median, then these numbers are almost worthless. Those wishing to claim others are paid too much often rely on averages.

[Edification101]

Originally Posted by jasminescent

Yes, I should have just gone to the bureau of labor statistics directly because that link is a few years old anyway. Here this combines the public and private middle school teachers in suffolk and nassau, excluding special ed. We all know that private school teachers get paid a lot less and not many have a problem with their salaries.

Here's the average salary for May 2009 of middle school teachers, private and public, and not including special ed: $80,820
Middle School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education

Elementary school teachers in may 2009: $83,090
Elementary School Teachers, Except Special Education

Secondary school teachers in may 2009, private and public, excluding special ed: $83,560
Secondary School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education

And looks like Nassau-Suffolk surpassed everyone else by May 2009, and yes even in middle school.

Ok, so accepting these numbers, you now must truly look at the numbers that affect you. Nassau teachers get paid more than Suffolk teachers and depending on the district; teachers in Great Neck get paid more than teachers in Roosevelt. Cold Spring Harbor teachers get paid more than Riverhead teachers. The tax rates reflect this, but the people in these areas also make very different salaries.
I am not here to sway anyone’s opinion. I just feel is it is better that people make informed opinions rather than those based on misinformation. If you feel teachers in your district make too much based on factual information that is fine. I do find it interesting that no matter what the teacher salary average is, people feel teachers make too much. If you look at stories from around the country, there are teacher bashers in every state complaining about teachers. It is sad that the people who do support teachers and feel that they are getting what they pay for do not get as much press. Economic times are tough and when people are hurting they look to lash out at some target, which usually means teachers.
As an aside, I find it funny that people only get to vote on school budgets and nothing else. When money gets tight, the only direct control people have is the school budgets. There is plenty of waste from the federal level down through the state and local levels that the people cannot vote on directly but can only influence electing politicians.
So, support or bash as you feel you must, just do it with facts, not assumptions or hearsay evidence.
Just for Contemplation

[Edification101]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

If you don't provide a median, then these numbers are almost worthless. Those wishing to claim others are paid too much often rely on averages.

I agree, but so far I have only found the median for all of NY state. Median for Nassau or Suffolk or even Long Island in general seems to be hard to find. It would be interesting to see those numbers.

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

If you don't provide a median, then these numbers are almost worthless. Those wishing to claim others are paid too much often rely on averages.

I would not say and average is worthless in fact it is a good indicator to most people. Why would you expect the median to deviate significantly from the average. Do you think there are enough big salaries in >$120,000 range to skew these numbers? I would not expect the average to be significantly off the average based on the salaries I have seen.

[Edification101]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I would not say and average is worthless in fact it is a good indicator to most people. Why would you expect the median to deviate significantly from the average. Do you think there are enough big salaries in >$120,000 range to skew these numbers? I would not expect the average to be significantly off the average based on the salaries I have seen.

Yes, there are. There are teachers in some very wealthy district with close to 30 years working that making 140,000+. So yes, there are large salaries out there that can skew the numbers.
Just for Information

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I would not say and average is worthless in fact it is a good indicator to most people. Why would you expect the median to deviate significantly from the average. Do you think there are enough big salaries in >$120,000 range to skew these numbers? I would not expect the average to be significantly off the average based on the salaries I have seen.

A large difference between the median and the mean indicates that one of the two numbers (or bother) is skewed. However, if the numbers are similar, they help confirm the veracity of the other.

So, if you want further evidence of what you believe your average attest to, then provide the median. It would all come from the same data set, so it should be very readily available.

I don't care what satisfies most people. I want to know what the data actually says.

[NHP Guy]

I can only go by my SD (Herricks)...the difference between the mean and the median was negligible for 2009-2010. Food for thought when talking about arithmetic means; the number can be skewed in a downward direction just as easily as it can be in an upward direction when a list includes the salaries of part-timers, etc. That's where people can start manipulating the data a bit to better suit their position.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

We still need median.

There's a website that lists all teacher's salaries in NYS by school district. You know that already. Go there and figure out the median if you need it that bad.

FWIW, I know a teacher who retired a couple years ago and her pension is $66,000 a year. Not counting Social Security. The $85K doesn't look like such a far off number to me for working teachers.

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

A large difference between the median and the mean indicates that one of the two numbers (or bother) is skewed. However, if the numbers are similar, they help confirm the veracity of the other.

So, if you want further evidence of what you believe your average attest to, then provide the median. It would all come from the same data set, so it should be very readily available.

I don't care what satisfies most people. I want to know what the data actually says.

Table 10 in attached for Long Island the mean is:

$83780 elementary,$82,010 middle; $84,650 for secondary.

remainder of NY State (incl NYC):

$66,370 elementary $67,610 middle, $68,260 secondary


Also mean for experienced wages (top 2/3 of wages) on LI is $94,000 - $99,000
while entry level (bottom 1/3 wage earners) is $55,000 to $56,000


Anyway pretty close to the averages, not significant so is the veracity confirmed?

NSSBA Home Page Long Island Education:Costs and Outcomes

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

Table 10 in attached for Long Island the mean is:

$83780 elementary,$82,010 middle; $84,650 for secondary.

remainder of NY State (incl NYC):

$66,370 elementary $67,610 middle, $68,260 secondary


Also mean for experienced wages (top 2/3 of wages) on LI is $94,000 - $99,000
while entry level (bottom 1/3 wage earners) is $55,000 to $56,000


Anyway pretty close to the averages, not significant so is the veracity confirmed?

NSSBA Home Page Long Island Education:Costs and Outcomes

Yep - the mean and the average are pretty close. I would have guessed it because they mean the exact same thing. The median is a different measure of central tendency.