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Old 06-28-2010, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,792 posts, read 16,827,570 times
Reputation: 6469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
Yep - the mean and the average are pretty close. I would have guessed it because they mean the exact same thing. The median is a different measure of central tendency.
Like I said before, figure it out for us and enlighten our poor feeble minds then.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:43 PM
 
843 posts, read 1,175,686 times
Reputation: 309
Default No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Like I said before, figure it out for us and enlighten our poor feeble minds then.
I side with the status quo. You are critiquing it with numbers that are quite likely very unrepresentative of the population. I called you on it. Now it's your turn to provide more meaningful numbers.

When you make arguments, you assume burdens. Fulfilling them helps you win.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,792 posts, read 16,827,570 times
Reputation: 6469
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
I side with the status quo. You are critiquing it with numbers that are quite likely very unrepresentative of the population. I called you on it. Now it's your turn to provide more meaningful numbers.

When you make arguments, you assume burdens. Fulfilling them helps you win.
You don't even know who you're arguing with, do you?

I have been a bystander in your argument with various posters over the terms mean, median, average, etc.

All I did was give you a helpful suggestion as to how you could find the salaries so that you may figure the median, since you deem that to be the definitive number you are seeking.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:28 PM
 
843 posts, read 1,175,686 times
Reputation: 309
Default No

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
You don't even know who you're arguing with, do you?

I have been a bystander in your argument with various posters over the terms mean, median, average, etc.

All I did was give you a helpful suggestion as to how you could find the salaries so that you may figure the median, since you deem that to be the definitive number you are seeking.
It isn't a definitive number. It's no more definitive than the mean, but both can affirm the other, or call the other into question.

As I noted earlier, conservatives often like to measure social phenomena with averages (means) because they often inflate numbers to their advantage (e.g., mean national incomes, mean home values). It is very likely that this is one more case.

But I don't have any burden to take the raw numbers and run my own computations. If someone else is indicting the status quo, it is his/her job to offer convincing evidence. This evidence, quite evidently, isn't convincing because the school systems are moving full steam ahead. Very few districts rejected proposed school budgets even in one of the worst national economic down-turns. Provide better evidence.

I'm sure your love of the median would emerge if I compared average teacher salaries to average LI household income.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,792 posts, read 16,827,570 times
Reputation: 6469
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
It isn't a definitive number. It's no more definitive than the mean, but both can affirm the other, or call the other into question.

As I noted earlier, conservatives often like to measure social phenomena with averages (means) because they often inflate numbers to their advantage (e.g., mean national incomes, mean home values). It is very likely that this is one more case.

But I don't have any burden to take the raw numbers and run my own computations. If someone else is indicting the status quo, it is his/her job to offer convincing evidence. This evidence, quite evidently, isn't convincing because the school systems are moving full steam ahead. Very few districts rejected proposed school budgets even in one of the worst national economic down-turns. Provide better evidence.

I'm sure your love of the median would emerge if I compared average teacher salaries to average LI household income.
Anything else people came up with for you besides the median was no good.

I thought you wanted the median, yet could not find it. So I gave you a "do it yourself" suggestion.

So all I can conclude is you don't even want to know for yourself.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:50 PM
 
843 posts, read 1,175,686 times
Reputation: 309
Default So helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
Anything else people came up with for you besides the median was no good.

I thought you wanted the median, yet could not find it. So I gave you a "do it yourself" suggestion.

So all I can conclude is you don't even want to know for yourself.
I'm simply saying, with incomplete evidence, I'm not convinced. Neither should others be (Yoda?).
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Long Island
8,655 posts, read 2,917,883 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
I'm simply saying, with incomplete evidence, I'm not convinced. Neither should others be (Yoda?).
So after all this riveting conversation on statistics do you have any opinion on the results or was this just a drill.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:46 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,441,031 times
Reputation: 657
Not sure what his point is either at this junction of the conversation. Does he think that 5 people make 1,000,000 and the rest are paid 50,000? The spread is easy enough to find, just take starting salary on one end and check the superintendant on the other. So your spreads are like 50-200K. Now take a SD and check the percentage of people making over figures, IIRC Sachem has about 30% of its employees doing so, not counting the benefits. 80ish is what I'd guess for average teacher salary.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:45 AM
 
Location: NHP, NY
291 posts, read 335,059 times
Reputation: 112
If people are very interested in what the numbers really look like, you can start with a FOIL request of your home district. I did this with Herricks and was very specific about the information I wanted and how I wanted it presented, etc. For example, I requested that they separate or denote admin professionals and teachers. I also requested the current step and educational level each person was at, what their salary was and what their additional salary was (ex: for coaching) etc. Per my request, Herricks provided this for me in an electronic format, so the data analysis has been very easy. They filled this request in under 2 weeks, at no cost to me. As I said earlier in this thread, the median base salary of full-time teachers was just a shade under $95k for the 2009-2010 school year, with the teachers in that general bucket at about Step 10 and in the M+40 education range.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:42 AM
 
29 posts, read 9,711 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
It isn't a definitive number. It's no more definitive than the mean, but both can affirm the other, or call the other into question.

As I noted earlier, conservatives often like to measure social phenomena with averages (means) because they often inflate numbers to their advantage (e.g., mean national incomes, mean home values). It is very likely that this is one more case.

But I don't have any burden to take the raw numbers and run my own computations. If someone else is indicting the status quo, it is his/her job to offer convincing evidence. This evidence, quite evidently, isn't convincing because the school systems are moving full steam ahead. Very few districts rejected proposed school budgets even in one of the worst national economic down-turns. Provide better evidence.

I'm sure your love of the median would emerge if I compared average teacher salaries to average LI household income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
1) Why would inflation be linked to teacher salaries. Shouldn't it be linked to community wealth? Overall community wealth is increasing (if you use averages - Republicans would rather you use medians or modes).

So in the top post, which is a post in this thread, you say conservatives want to measure central tendency with means.

Now in another thread (the second quote from you), you state that Republicans (ie: conservatives) would rather use medians/modes.

So which is it? How are you going to twist your faulty argument to fit this obvious hypocrisy?

I think it's safe to say that anyone who attempts (poorly I might add) to come across as an intellectual on this message board is about the last person who's opinion anyone would ever want to take. Take your pseudo-intellectual nonsense elsewhere, nobody here is fooled.

Additionally, you state that you do not need to provide facts because you are advocating for the status quo with regards to school taxes. Well, I and many others (see the many LI message boards, Newsday, News12, etc) would argue that anyone who would argue for the status quo:

(1) is filthy rich and the taxes mean nothing to them
(2) is benefitting financially from the current arrangement
(3) has their head buried deep in the sand
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