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Old 05-27-2010, 09:31 PM
 
1,144 posts, read 1,102,517 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
How about every contract that expires gets replaced with a less expensive contract? I know, simple is hard for politicians. No matter what, you need to have a long term viable plan for future problems to not arise.

Changes to the contract have to be RE-NEGOTIATED. Under the Taylor Law's Triboro Ammendment, the provisions of the expired contract continue indefinatly (sp?) until replaces (negotiated). If you (as the employer) go in and say "We are throwing out the whole contract and proposing this,,," They (labor) would be fools to go along. Status quo would be their best interest, and they can walk away from the table. Yes they would recieve no more salary adjustments (unless scheduled previously), but you the employer wouldn't recieve ANY concessions that are killing you.

It is a contract, which are protected documents, freezing pay may make sense, but it cant be legislated, Some parties are agreeable to not raise pay to benefit the situation. Where I am, we took no increase Jan 1, 2004, and Jan 1, 2010. Considering the states situation I am ok with no increase this year.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:31 AM
 
1,828 posts, read 1,394,651 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckthedog View Post
Changes to the contract have to be RE-NEGOTIATED. Under the Taylor Law's Triboro Ammendment, the provisions of the expired contract continue indefinatly (sp?) until replaces (negotiated). If you (as the employer) go in and say "We are throwing out the whole contract and proposing this,,," They (labor) would be fools to go along. Status quo would be their best interest, and they can walk away from the table. Yes they would recieve no more salary adjustments (unless scheduled previously), but you the employer wouldn't recieve ANY concessions that are killing you.

It is a contract, which are protected documents, freezing pay may make sense, but it cant be legislated, Some parties are agreeable to not raise pay to benefit the situation. Where I am, we took no increase Jan 1, 2004, and Jan 1, 2010. Considering the states situation I am ok with no increase this year.
Trust me, a year or two on a pay freeze because of contract non-negotiation will have members screeming to get a move on. School districts have screwed the tax payer long enough. Hell I'm public/union and we gave up abunch of stuff last round (increased medical copays etc) for measely 3% raises. Plus our "steps" are far less generous, less frequent, and are capped at a significantly lower number.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:17 AM
 
280 posts, read 47,542 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjacoupe View Post
So is forced labor.
Forced labor is better than furloughs? Wow somebody has issues...


Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjacoupe View Post
Doesnt make it right or legal. It will be challenged in court. You should not be able to legislate yourself out of a contractual agreement. The rule of law MUST be upheld as we are a nation based on and of laws.
Actually it is BOTH right and legal. In these times we need public servants to be included in the pain. They are lucky they aren't losing their jobs and getting pay reductions - they can deal with not going with COLA for a year.

As far as legal, if the state is declared in a "fiscal emergency", the state can do what it needs to survive. I'm sorry, but when a company is going bankrupt it doesn't have to continue to pay out raises to it's employees (even union employees), why should that be any different for our ourpaid civil servants?
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:19 AM
 
280 posts, read 47,542 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip View Post
In a few (or even many) years when the economy turns around, the public sector will get bonuses, right?
Why? Are private sector employees being "made whole" when they lost their jobs, took pay cuts, had their salaries frozen?

The sense of entitlement civil servants have is DISGUSTING.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:21 AM
 
280 posts, read 47,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFD240 View Post
so that's why it pisses me the fvck off when people complain about state pensions... you begrudge me my pension? i begrudge your annual bonuses which are probably more than my salary...
keep dreaming pal, it's a small minority of private sector workers that get bonuses of any magnitude. You get your 3% every year and the more private sector workers than those who get bonuses in good years get laid off or take pay cuts.

Public sector wages have risen relative to private sector wages since 1990. No civil servant should be crying about a pay freeze, it's LONG overdue.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:18 AM
 
152 posts, read 320,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFD240 View Post
god i wish... i'm public sector - non-union...

in good times we get a cola of 3% at the most... no merits, no bonuses and even have to pay to go to our christmas party...

i haven't had any increase since 2008 and probably not till 2011... but when times are booming and the private sector employees are pulling down 25k bonuses, i'll be back (maybe) to 3% colas


BUT

i have my state pension...

which is a decision i made, forgo big bucks up front for a more secure job (although not that much now) and a pension...

so that's why it pisses me the fvck off when people complain about state pensions... you begrudge me my pension? i begrudge your annual bonuses which are probably more than my salary...
Why? How does that affect you at all? As you said now, you are in the public sector - how about your bonus? Oh - you don't get one? Welcome to the club.

So you're getting a regular public sector paycheck (whose salary is no one's business, since your company pays it, not the taxpayers) AND you're getting a pension. Which I'm guessing is guaranteed for life and you also have free health benefits for life. And you probably retired in your 40s. And the taxpayers support that. And you're complaining? Give.me.a.break.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:32 AM
 
939 posts, read 1,262,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brimasa View Post
Why? How does that affect you at all? As you said now, you are in the public sector - how about your bonus? Oh - you don't get one? Welcome to the club.

So you're getting a regular public sector paycheck (whose salary is no one's business, since your company pays it, not the taxpayers) AND you're getting a pension. Which I'm guessing is guaranteed for life and you also have free health benefits for life. And you probably retired in your 40s. And the taxpayers support that. And you're complaining? Give.me.a.break.
i'm in my 40s now and have a long way to go before retirement

and what's your definition of public sector
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Patchogue
168 posts, read 164,882 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanofavatar1 View Post
Forced labor is better than furloughs? Wow somebody has issues...


Actually it is BOTH right and legal. In these times we need public servants to be included in the pain. They are lucky they aren't losing their jobs and getting pay reductions - they can deal with not going with COLA for a year.

As far as legal, if the state is declared in a "fiscal emergency", the state can do what it needs to survive. I'm sorry, but when a company is going bankrupt it doesn't have to continue to pay out raises to it's employees (even union employees), why should that be any different for our ourpaid civil servants?
There are LAWS in place in which the state can go bankrupt. NY state has the legal option to pursue this avenue if it is required. A fiscal state of emergency as you describe places the burden solely on civil service employees. What about the bondholders... shouldnt they share some of the burden as well. Bankcruptcy ensures a legal fair proceeding and offers protections as well for the different creditors. Everyone will share the pain IAW there risk and heirchy as described in bankruptcy laws and proceeding.

It is not fair to place the burden soley on the backs of civil service employees to balance the state budget while other creditors go on unscathed due to public sentiment at the time. Public sentiment can be a dangerous thing, often driven by emotion not reason.

BTW the Governer CAN furlough employees IAW the collective bargaining agreements in place. He doesnt want to follow the contracts and go by seniority as agreed upon.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:03 AM
 
4,193 posts, read 68,335 times
Reputation: 1983
My dh works for the private sector. He has been there for over 5 years. Initially he was given a company truck that he could bring home ; that was added into his salary and worth $6000 a year. Then two years later, they took away the truck but didnt give him the $6000.

This year his raise was ; $59 per month. It equals to 30cents an hour. That is patethic for a 46 year old man who earns 45,000 a year with a batchelors degree. He works 49 hours a week during the season and 40 during the off season.

And you wonder why I am angry with public servants!!! I was in the town on Monday and had to wait at least 30 mins until the people there stopped their chatter ; 30 mins ; oh yes, they are being paid with my tax money!!
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:56 AM
 
280 posts, read 47,542 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjacoupe View Post
There are LAWS in place in which the state can go bankrupt. NY state has the legal option to pursue this avenue if it is required. A fiscal state of emergency as you describe places the burden solely on civil service employees. What about the bondholders... shouldnt they share some of the burden as well. Bankcruptcy ensures a legal fair proceeding and offers protections as well for the different creditors. Everyone will share the pain IAW there risk and heirchy as described in bankruptcy laws and proceeding.

It is not fair to place the burden soley on the backs of civil service employees to balance the state budget while other creditors go on unscathed due to public sentiment at the time. Public sentiment can be a dangerous thing, often driven by emotion not reason.

BTW the Governer CAN furlough employees IAW the collective bargaining agreements in place. He doesnt want to follow the contracts and go by seniority as agreed upon.
Oh OK, let's make NYS delcare bankruptcy and have it's credit rating demolished. Let's pay double or triple what we are currently paying in interest and push the situation down the toilet even further.....

just so the civil servants get their 4%.

Give me a break, the civil servant union mindset is KILLING this state and this country. You theives care about no one but yourself. You should be ashamed. But I didn't expect anything less given your sense of entitlement.
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