From NY to CA (Los Angeles: relocating, houses, condos)

[Sal Monella]

Originally Posted by TheRealAngelion

That's a funny story. At least they had the guts to say they wanted someone pretty. However, again, such a story is not unique to LA. At Hooters they want pretty too and Hooters is all over the country, including New York!

I honestly don't understand how you can compare a waitressing job that actually requires huge breasts & a pretty face as part of its job description (Hooters) to working as a receptionist in a dental office.

[dtran103]

Originally Posted by TheRealAngelion

That's a funny story. At least they had the guts to say they wanted someone pretty. However, again, such a story is not unique to LA. At Hooters they want pretty too and Hooters is all over the country, including New York!

More than hooters, you go to NYC and you see any ugly editors-in-chief? They are all white, all 6 feet tall, and all good-looking. Apparently beauty is important to edit a magazine. It's entered the literary world as well. You have to be young and have a photogenic book jacket face to get a novel published nowadays, hence all the trash chick lit novels and Easton Ellis rips. That's the way the world works. Beauty gets you ahead.

Ever see John Stossel's Lookism story? It was investigative journalism in New York City by the way. Anyone who thinks NYC is a meritocracy has a LOT to learn about the real world.

ABCNEWS.com : Lookism: The Ugly Truth About Beauty

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by dtran103

More than hooters, you go to NYC and you see any ugly editors-in-chief? They are all white, all 6 feet tall, and all good-looking.
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Are you kidding me? I'm wondering if you've ever lived in the NY Metro area? Because I lived there for 37 years, worked for 18 of those and NEVER saw a good-looking company owner or higher-up. Not model good looks, anyway. But--I didn't work in Manhattan proper...so maybe that's part of it? I don't know. Middle management tended to get slightly better-looking types, definitely at times a person with a "male or female model" look, but the general running joke for the really high-ups was always, "S/he doesn't need to be handsome/pretty, s/he has enough money to buy a husband/wife."

The closest to really good-looking was the owner of the last company I worked for, in northern NJ. He was quite handsome, though definitely not six feet tall. He was on the shorter side. His father had owned the company before him. So he kind of "fell into" company ownership. But the main thrust, as I always understood it, was that it was what you could do that got you ahead--for good or for bad, don't get me wrong. You would always hear an upper-management or higher person being referred to as a "go getter", a "mad dog," "nuts" about his/her work, or working crazy hours. Definitely never his or her looks. And with good reason!

[JerZ]

I also wanted to comment on the Stossel thing. First of all, it never mentions NYC. It mentions other parts of the country, though.

Better-looking people can often tend to have more confidence, and that confidence will be responded to. As far as job offers, I am not a fashion model and I never had a problem getting a job on the east coast. And trust me, there were plenty of 20-year-old skinny adorable applicants sitting in chairs next to me on various interviews. Not always, but often enough. I had the experience. I had the personality. I got the job.

As far as responding to good looks--well, yes, of course we do. Employers do. It's called sexual attraction. It does mean more attention--but it doesn't always mean the job offer...trust me. I worked for an employment agency years ago (as an admin. assistant) and people fawned all over the gorgeous applicants--then sent them on an interview or two, perhaps found they weren't as strong in the interviewing process, and they were the ones who got dumped by the agency (not officially, the agency would just stop calling the applicant).

I wonder how many other pretty/ugly pairs Stossel put together before he found one where the employer would make the offer to the pretty one, so that he could go ahead and present it as news.

[dtran103]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Are you kidding me? I'm wondering if you've ever lived in the NY Metro area? Because I lived there for 37 years, worked for 18 of those and NEVER saw a good-looking company owner or higher-up. Not model good looks, anyway. But--I didn't work in Manhattan proper...so maybe that's part of it? I don't know. Middle management tended to get slightly better-looking types, definitely at times a person with a "male or female model" look, but the general running joke for the really high-ups was always, "S/he doesn't need to be handsome/pretty, s/he has enough money to buy a husband/wife."

The closest to really good-looking was the owner of the last company I worked for, in northern NJ. He was quite handsome, though definitely not six feet tall. He was on the shorter side. His father had owned the company before him. So he kind of "fell into" company ownership. But the main thrust, as I always understood it, was that it was what you could do that got you ahead--for good or for bad, don't get me wrong. You would always hear an upper-management or higher person being referred to as a "go getter", a "mad dog," "nuts" about his/her work, or working crazy hours. Definitely never his or her looks. And with good reason!

I've lived there for 5 years a decade ago, belly of the beast Manhattan, worked in the publishing world. Company owners, I agree, are physically average or ugly. Much like studio bosses in LA. After all, even in NYC, looks only get you so far, so the pretty ones are always in the 2nd or 3rd tier of upper ownership/management. Always anglo, above average looking, and extremely tall, always decked out in Brioni.

Oh. My. God. You think the fashion industry in NY is shallow? You don't have to be good-looking to be a designer. And designers aren't even well-dressed when you see then in public. Publishing world, completely different story. And there is no reason to be pretty. For example, one person I worked with said in argument for a lackluster novelist "He's young, pretty...well I think he's marketable." WTF?

But even worse than lookism in NY is alma mater-ism. It doesn't matter how long you've worked, how hard, if you weren't educated at the east coast private schools, and some newbie with no experience comes in with an Ivy-league, daddy-paid education, be prepared. There is a network among certain private east coast schools and establishments. So many proven talented people I know snubbed for newcomers with little experience. It's this bizarre phenomenon that's really prevalent in this world.

[MigratingOkie]

<<People were getting hired that KNEW SOMEONE ELSE in the company.
...
So far, I've received two callbacks for a couple of job interviews I went on. Hardly said anything on the interview, except how fabulous I thought the place was and great it would be to work there, blah, blah. They told the agencies I WAS PERFECT FOR THE JOBS, but needed to interview again. Mind you, I said NOTHING about my skills or anything else of that nature. Basically kept my mouth shut the entire time.>>

Wow! Thanks for the interviewing tips! I've just been to NY for 3 days a month ago, I even stayed in Harlem (yikes! by mistake.. long story). Surprisingly, with Harlem's reputation, in many ways it was way better than what I had expected. Secondly, I honestly think NYers were very-very friendly, compared to 12 years ago. I was thoroughly surprised, impressed at the same time. Hmm.. wonder if 9/11 somehow changed NYers... don't know, but it's definitely great, and I loved NY.. 12 years ago and this time.

Ha.. I've been to CA many times and loved CA too. I'm considering moving to CA, thus reading this thread. Gotta say, so glad I found this site.. it's really helpful. It's true, from internet research, LA's public transportation system looks kinda great on paper. Of course, having just been to NY and absolutely loved the train system there, I would love to find a place in CA with decent public transportation.. after some research, SF and LA in CA have the best. SF's is quite expensive, LA's looks good on paper but learned from this forum that it's actually horrible. For the first 19 years of my life (outside of US), my family always have our own car, in a city with very-very decent public transportation. I am not ready to give up driving, at the same time find decent public transportation (that I plan to use a lot), so far I believe LA is the closest match here in the US. Well of course, good weather is nice... plus close proximity to a bigger city.

Sorry, off topic, I just wanna voice my opinion that NYers are so much nicer nowadays (have lots of good experience I can share). Secondly I want to say everybody's is looking for a better place to live, and I believe almost every place in US is a compromise. If it's outside of the US, I think Sydney AU has pretty much all I want... very good beach (water is great), a big city, housing slightly outside is still affordable, great weather, big country with lots of places to visit, great food (oh.. their fresh seafood, fish market), great restaurant... downside, could use slightly better economy and job market... but no place is perfect. Only if I have enough money to stay in a place of my choice..

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by dtran103

I've lived there for 5 years a decade ago, belly of the beast Manhattan, worked in the publishing world. Company owners, I agree, are physically average or ugly. Much like studio bosses in LA. After all, even in NYC, looks only get you so far, so the pretty ones are always in the 2nd or 3rd tier of upper ownership/management. Always anglo, above average looking, and extremely tall, always decked out in Brioni.

Oh. My. God. You think the fashion industry in NY is shallow? You don't have to be good-looking to be a designer. And designers aren't even well-dressed when you see then in public. Publishing world, completely different story. And there is no reason to be pretty. For example, one person I worked with said in argument for a lackluster novelist "He's young, pretty...well I think he's marketable." WTF?

But even worse than lookism in NY is alma mater-ism. It doesn't matter how long you've worked, how hard, if you weren't educated at the east coast private schools, and some newbie with no experience comes in with an Ivy-league, daddy-paid education, be prepared. There is a network among certain private east coast schools and establishments. So many proven talented people I know snubbed for newcomers with little experience. It's this bizarre phenomenon that's really prevalent in this world.

That's weird, because I worked in publishing, too (in recent years). I worked for a trade magazine (associate editor).

However, as I said, it wasn't inside Manhattan, it was in the burbs, so perhaps that accounts for how you saw things so differently from how I saw them. I should add, though, that my job did call for me to go to Manhattan, about twice a month, either for trade shows or new releases, etc. I can't imagine what else it could be, honestly.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Oh, I'm sorry...you're right...I got sidetracked by those OC threads that somebody posted, and it wasn't a movie. You were claiming a disgruntled poster should have known what the OC was like by watching Real Wives of Orange County. My mistake.




Oh, so that's why you're in this thread, even though you don't live in LA, and have never lived in LA. Is that the same reason you're chewing people out in the OC even though you've never lived in the OC? And in Pennsylvania even though you've never lived in Pennsylvania? And Georgia? And Virginia? Thanks for clearing that up. I'm so very sorry that the entire country gets on your nerves. Might I suggest Xanax? Everybody around here uses it. It's too hard to get Vicodin refills.

Honestly, miamiman, for a person who has state-hopped as you have (at least three states, anyway--though you're allowing people in other states to surmise that you have extensive knowledge about those states as well, somehow--more so than people who actually live there), I'd be a little nervous of accepting you as the self-appointed citydata expert on how to be happy with what you have.

One thing I can say for sure, as someone who actually lives here--you really don't know LA.

Wow. I am sorry that you are so confused. When I said that people should be able to infer general ideas about LA, I meant through common knowledge and through reliable news media. Real Housewives of OC is set in Orange County. Los Angeles is in Los Angeles County. Two completely different ballparks. All I am saying is if you and so many other New Yorkers are fed up, GO HOME. LA can't be everything to everybody, and please don't sit around waiting for the city to cater to your needs, because it won't.

Believe it or not, some people travel around a lot, and are able to make observations based on their experiences. I am sorry that someone like you doesn't realize that some individuals actually know quite a bit about more than one place in the United States. I actually spent childhood summers in PA, and have visited frequently since. My job has taken me to Northern Virginia, Atlanta, and other areas, too. I am sorry that you have a limited frame of reference about the rest of the country. I guess someone who doesn't realize that there is a difference in lifestyles between NY and LA until they move there would make a snide comment like that.

Additionally, the entire country doesn't get on my nerves. Just individuals who express extreme ignorance toward commonly known facts about a city. Please take a geography class, and realize that everyone is not as blind as you when it comes to different areas of the United States.

Thank you.

[JerZ]

LOL... (/yawn)

I did take a geography class, but sadly, my teacher at the time left out the "Real Wives of Orange County is a Realistic Portrayal; Use its Wisdom" segment. What a shameful state the NJ school system has gotten to!

Anyhoo...I am wondering where the OP went? To the OP: You may have gotten frightened away from following up due to some of the comments on this thread. So I just wanted to reiterate that if you'd like to talk to somebody about all this, send me a PM. Hang in there.

[shellinca]

Originally Posted by miamiman

Additionally, the entire country doesn't get on my nerves. Just individuals who express extreme ignorance toward commonly known facts about a city. Please take a geography class, and realize that everyone is not as blind as you when it comes to different areas of the United States.

Know what gets on my nerves? People like you. People who are judgmental and make assumptions about people. And people who come on boards like this just to stir up trouble.

For the last time, I don't think anyone here moved out to LA thinking it would be paradise. We all knew it would have its pluses and minuses just like any other big city. In my case, I heard all the horror stories about traffic, so it didn't surprise me when I moved here. I wasn't surprised by it when I arrived, but was surprised by my reaction to it because I thought I could tolerate it.

This thread has gotten a bit out of control. It started out with one poor kid feeling down and homesick and looking for a little encouragement from other east coasters who've relocated to LA. But then a couple of people got defensive and got into NY bashing (the comment about New Yorkers being rude and shoving people) and so the east coasters defended NY. Then you came in out of nowhere and started calling us all ignorant. And that's where things really got out of hand. You're nothing but a troublemaker with nothing interesting to add to the conversation. Perhaps you're just not happy with your own life and feel the need to come here and insult other people because it makes you feel better about yourself.