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Old 01-07-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,155 posts, read 4,459,839 times
Reputation: 3540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
This is a very well written, well thought out post, and one of the few that cogently spells out the origin for a lot of these LA/SoCal stereotypes.

However, I would like to pick it apart if you don't mind.

You are right that people do come here to "reinvent themselves" however, for the very reasons that you describe as attracting people to LA and SoCal, people can actually become truly, truly "real" just as much as they come to live out some image. For transplants it can and does go both ways. But IMO, I can't imagine how much effort one must go through to completely live a fake, reinvented "costumed" life, that's a LOT of work and one couldn't keep that up forever.

On the flipside because regions of deeper traditions, less transient, more set in their ways tend to put more pressure on people to conform . . . thus making them more "fake" back in their hometowns.

Small Midwestern and Southern towns are NOTORIOUS for people having skeletons in their closet, because they are constantly living up to the model citizen to gain approval from the fellow peers. And even if its not "skeletons in ones' closet, a Utah native being more serious about LDS/Mormon faith than they really are, is being fake IN Utah for example.

Pseudo-intellectuals are NOTORIOUSLY fake. People make liberal statements just because that is the "educated" thing to say. Political activism without being super well educated on whatever issue, is actually being VERY fake.

I also think small talk is very, very valuable. I HATE it more than anything else, when people insist on interviewing me. When they bombard me with a string of specific questions, or even worse give me unsolicited advice, when they hardly know me. I find it an ultimate insult, not to respect my individualism and complexity. Being able to strike up a conversation without having to extract knowledge from someone about that someone is very important. And I love how native Southern Californians respect that.

Bottom line: conforming to whatever culture one grew up in is living more of a fake life, than living where everyone is doing their own thing.
I've always held this observation and it's satisfying to see it confirmed by non-natives. Precious little positive commentary is made on Southern California sociology, but this is a good example. I get a kick from exchanging brief commentary about the most random subject, whether important or completely inane, with complete strangers. No sales, no agenda, and no intent to impeach.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,733 posts, read 13,278,905 times
Reputation: 11283
Quote:
Originally Posted by nslander View Post
I've always held this observation and it's satisfying to see it confirmed by non-natives. Precious little positive commentary is made on Southern California sociology, but this is a good example. I get a kick from exchanging brief commentary about the most random subject, whether important or completely inane, with complete strangers. No sales, no agenda, and no intent to impeach.
Yup, I miss that
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:00 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,155 posts, read 4,459,839 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yup, I miss that
Back in Beantown? By way of....?
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:01 PM
 
10,097 posts, read 7,475,718 times
Reputation: 5225
Where do ppl get this idea about the city being fake?

I'm starting to really get annoyed at all the trendy online stuff out there that depicts LA as this fake city when really they're only talking about 20% of the population in places like West LA and Calabasas or what not.

Its stupid and it ignores the vast 80% of the rest of the population of LA who are hard working and middle class folk. Sure there are a lot of these wannabe Hollywood geeks that come out here and live and die by pop culture but there are also a ton of more real artists that come out here and make the area eclectic.

Most of the online flak about LA is written by yuppies talking about the other yuppies they hate.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,481 posts, read 10,403,285 times
Reputation: 5372
FWIW, there are plenty of frauds on the East Coast. Even the gangs on the East coast try to copy and steal LA gangsta culture such as the East Coast Bloods, Crips, etc.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:38 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 6,489,194 times
Reputation: 5030
LA is the most "legit" big city on the west coast. Hollywood crap aside, it's a hugely dynamic and diverse place, rivaled only by NY. And in some ways it slays NY (weather and natural beauty for 1 and 2...)
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:07 PM
 
132 posts, read 164,514 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrmsd View Post
I've not read this whole thread, but two aspects come to mind, about both LA and so cal as a whole:

People come to/migrate from other places to LA/so cal FOR THE IMAGE. So they perpetuate and help to cultivate said image. Even if the image is a stereotype and not 'real'. SO, you have many people [not all] living a life that is 'in their minds' [or dreams, or nightmares....etc etc]. The fact that you are wearing a costume to live a life that you imagine, makes it fake. People move to reinvent themselves all of the time. To many places around the world. From rural to urban, etc etc

LA is a huge magnet for this scenario, however, b/c of the entertainment industry, the size of the city and the west coast/CA gold rush mindset. It's CA as a whole and specifically so cal/LA) the projection for dreams, and has been for many people, for decades and decades. In fact, it was/is where many people do make their dreams come true. And many others simply live a facade.

Stereotype (also a true one in my experience): So CAL as a whole is known for its laid back attitude, and it also tends towards superficial/less intellectual interests. This is true on average, and as far as atmosphere. Some contributing reasons, in my view:

The region does not have an entrenched academic/upper class/boarding school lineage, etc.
*Not tied to tradition and set mindset/ways of doing things, compared to many, older or less transient parts of the country. Again, this is a draw for people. But this characteristic contributes to a less engaged or cohesive reality, too. 'Do your own thing' is very cool, appealing and alluring. But it means that people will be....doing their own things!!!

When people come to perpetuate that reality, it's because it is desirable to them. Some visit or move here and find that this attitude of laid back instead/also feels disinterested and insincere. And the superficial translates as fake. I wonder if there is also a longer term midwestern 'nice' influence that has rubbed off, as well. Because people are not particularly comfortable being very straight forward and seem to try to be 'nice' and avoid conflict.

Conversations more than 3 sentences each way seem to make people nervous. lol [My source for this opinion: Grew up in the NE, lived in MT, CO, SFO and now 10 years in SD]. People from the NE in particular, through the mid atlantic seaboard, and maybe the chicago area, can get kind of bummed with the make plans and not follow through thing. Or the superficial thing can seem evasive. Or the nice chat but not really interested in doing anything about it except being superficially pleasant-in-that-moment attitude gets to some (ie, not making any plans after that initial nice chat, whether for friends or dating wise).

I personally have found that there are many different types of people in so cal (shock of shocks, I know!!!), though the overarching atmosphere does fit the stereotypes to a large extent. Similarly, certain cultures are pervasive in different areas of the country-new england, northwest, texas, deep south, etc.

So CAL definitely has a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to it, however, b/c so many people are drawn to invent or reinvent or escape themselves through what the project onto the area. Some do this, and become the stereotype, furthering the cycle. (:

I mean, I can tell people that my spouse and family are SD natives, and many of my first friends when I moved here are SD/so cal/LA natives and how down to earth they are, etc. and people do not believe me. None of them fit the stereotype ALL ALL. And they are from diverse backgrounds. The people I meet who do fit the stereotype are actually from elsewhere. lol.

What can you do? LA: The city people love to hate.

I am, however, finding it weird how many threads on this forum bash the looks of women in SFO/bay area. Strange...Haven't seen many threads discussing guys in the bay area vs. so cal. I'm sure they exist. But, I can assure you, you're not all princes, fellas! lol I amuse myself... Why does this get discussed, however, in a moving/city forum? Shouldn't those types of discussions be in the general forums under some random, highly subjective and inflammatory topic, with a telling title so that women or anyone could enter at own risk?
I like your statement on this thread, but I disagree on not just the transplants to act like this superficial celebrity status. Also, you should include the locals to act in this manner. I was an ex-Angelino to grow up in the SF Valley; therefore, I remember those days during my HS years in the 1990s. My fellow classmates to act very celebrity status to be very artificial & snobby. After I graduated from HS to leave LA & see other parts of the country & abroad. Don't regret it at all. It broaden my horizon & wisdom.

It's funny,

When I left LA that I didn't even kept in contact with anyone of my fellow HS classmates. After 2010, I started to receive add-friends & messages on my FB acct from my ex HS classmates, but I didn't bother & decline to add-them or reply them back. I just wanted to move on with my life. Although, I did checked on my ex HS classmates' FB acct pics to be the same old LA way of life. Most of them stayed, but very few traveled or moved outside of LA & CA for that matter.

Adam Carolla made this very powerful statement on his radio talk show about LA/SoCal culture to Ex. Mayor of SF Gavin Newsom,

"LA/CA used to be a very nice place to live, raise a family, & enjoy life, but not anymore. It is like a blonde chick in her 40s to still get by on her looks. After a while, she'll realize her looks are fading away. We Californians are dumb in order to keep up this glitz & glamour of Hollywood."

Gavin Newsom replied,

"Yeah, we're (CA) like the old jocks to still live up the good old days of HS football in the Valley."

Plus,

Now I live in NYC, but I really dislike how I bump into the stereotypical LA folks to visit or live (my surprise) here. Those stereotypical Angelinos in NYC just ***** & complain about how big, compact, dirty, fast pace, rude, massive rats, or unable to find parking. My reply is, "WELCOME TO THE BIG APPLE!"
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:50 PM
 
132 posts, read 164,514 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
This is a very well written, well thought out post, and one of the few that cogently spells out the origin for a lot of these LA/SoCal stereotypes.

However, I would like to pick it apart if you don't mind.

You are right that people do come here to "reinvent themselves" however, for the very reasons that you describe as attracting people to LA and SoCal, people can actually become truly, truly "real" just as much as they come to live out some image. For transplants it can and does go both ways. But IMO, I can't imagine how much effort one must go through to completely live a fake, reinvented "costumed" life, that's a LOT of work and one couldn't keep that up forever.

On the flipside because regions of deeper traditions, less transient, more set in their ways tend to put more pressure on people to conform . . . thus making them more "fake" back in their hometowns.

Small Midwestern and Southern towns are NOTORIOUS for people having skeletons in their closet, because they are constantly living up to the model citizen to gain approval from the fellow peers. And even if its not "skeletons in ones' closet, a Utah native being more serious about LDS/Mormon faith than they really are, is being fake IN Utah for example.

Pseudo-intellectuals are NOTORIOUSLY fake. People make liberal statements just because that is the "educated" thing to say. Political activism without being super well educated on whatever issue, is actually being VERY fake.

I also think small talk is very, very valuable. I HATE it more than anything else, when people insist on interviewing me. When they bombard me with a string of specific questions, or even worse give me unsolicited advice, when they hardly know me. I find it an ultimate insult, not to respect my individualism and complexity. Being able to strike up a conversation without having to extract knowledge from someone about that someone is very important. And I love how native Southern Californians respect that.

Bottom line: conforming to whatever culture one grew up in is living more of a fake life, than living where everyone is doing their own thing.
I agree with most of your statements on this thread, but I DISAGREE by what I bolded & italicized about how SoCal folks respect individualism to be "FAKE" as well. They're just as arrogant & ignorant like the rest of the country & overseas to believe in this climate/geographic elitism. How they're so intelligent to live in this 24/7 tropical paradise to be flawed. Especially a person like myself to depart from SoCal when I entered in the USAF. So I can travel & see the country & globe to observe various cultural & philosophical perspectives. Whether or not, I disagree with them. Overall it helped me really broaden my horizon & wisdom. However, my family & other people in SoCal tried to convince me not to leave b/c there is no place like it & the rest of the planet is crap compared to SoCal. It maybe partially true, but mostly it is false.

I got to see:

Ziggurat Temple (Iraq), Roman Coliseum (Italy), Ancient Olympia (Greece), Big Ben (England), Eiffel Tower (France), Street Canals (Netherlands), Great Wall (China), DMZ (Korea), Mount Fuji (Japan), Statue of Liberty (NYC), Independence Hall (Philly), First State Bldg. (Boston), Smithsonian Museum (DC), Mount Rushmore (SD), etc.

Glad I left SoCal to find things on my own as an individual.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,037,974 times
Reputation: 3974
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCIFER#666 View Post
I agree with most of your statements on this thread, but I DISAGREE by what I bolded & italicized about how SoCal folks respect individualism to be "FAKE" as well. They're just as arrogant & ignorant like the rest of the country & overseas to believe in this climate/geographic elitism. How they're so intelligent to live in this 24/7 tropical paradise to be flawed. Especially a person like myself to depart from SoCal when I entered in the USAF. So I can travel & see the country & globe to observe various cultural & philosophical perspectives. Whether or not, I disagree with them. Overall it helped me really broaden my horizon & wisdom. However, my family & other people in SoCal tried to convince me not to leave b/c there is no place like it & the rest of the planet is crap compared to SoCal. It maybe partially true, but mostly it is false.

I got to see:

Ziggurat Temple (Iraq), Roman Coliseum (Italy), Ancient Olympia (Greece), Big Ben (England), Eiffel Tower (France), Street Canals (Netherlands), Great Wall (China), DMZ (Korea), Mount Fuji (Japan), Statue of Liberty (NYC), Independence Hall (Philly), First State Bldg. (Boston), Smithsonian Museum (DC), Mount Rushmore (SD), etc.

Glad I left SoCal to find things on my own as an individual.
Me too. And I'm glad I came back.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:48 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,727,355 times
Reputation: 4421
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUCIFER#666 View Post
I agree with most of your statements on this thread, but I DISAGREE by what I bolded & italicized about how SoCal folks respect individualism to be "FAKE" as well. They're just as arrogant & ignorant like the rest of the country & overseas to believe in this climate/geographic elitism. How they're so intelligent to live in this 24/7 tropical paradise to be flawed. Especially a person like myself to depart from SoCal when I entered in the USAF. So I can travel & see the country & globe to observe various cultural & philosophical perspectives. Whether or not, I disagree with them. Overall it helped me really broaden my horizon & wisdom. However, my family & other people in SoCal tried to convince me not to leave b/c there is no place like it & the rest of the planet is crap compared to SoCal. It maybe partially true, but mostly it is false.

I got to see:

Ziggurat Temple (Iraq), Roman Coliseum (Italy), Ancient Olympia (Greece), Big Ben (England), Eiffel Tower (France), Street Canals (Netherlands), Great Wall (China), DMZ (Korea), Mount Fuji (Japan), Statue of Liberty (NYC), Independence Hall (Philly), First State Bldg. (Boston), Smithsonian Museum (DC), Mount Rushmore (SD), etc.


Glad I left SoCal to find things on my own as an individual.
Good for you. I love traveling too. Have been overseas on three separate trips, have been to at least half the states, and home to do more overseas travel in the coming years. Glad you're happy in New York.

A lot of people have a love hate relationship with where they're from, and I think we have in common is that we're both from regions that get a fair amount of hype. I feel about Chicago(land) the way you do about SoCal and LA. That its full of people mesmerized and by the larger than life edifices, locals who seemingly have never left and assume there's nothing else out there.

I love my family, and do enjoy going back for visits, and look forward to coming home, but I just find the boosterism insufferable. I know theres a lot unique about, but to me Chicago(land) might as well be interchangeable with Metro Detroit and Greater Toronto.

So I understand where you're coming from.
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