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Old 06-28-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 3,145,864 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
"the industry" does not represent LA or the level of "realness" in LA. if you think so, you are very wrong. basing your opinions on a small section of the city is equally ridiculous. there is more to LA than what pampered kids think they see...

live
from
FLORENCE
and
GRAHAM.

realllllnessssss!!!!!!
Good point. I guess because the "industry" is located in Los Angeles they naturally use LA as the focal point of movies\ television shows. There are more writers in Los Angeles than any other city except maybe NYC. So they write what they see or use familiar settings for their screen plays. If the entertainment capital was located in Atlanta or some other large city than the movies\ TV would heavily feature Atlanta. And I suppose people would accuse Atlanta of being a "fake" city.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,828 posts, read 3,256,683 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Prepackaged.

This looks store bought???

California has some of the most spectacular landscape in the Americas, and probably has more variations of terrain than anywhere else in the US. If you just don't like it then fine... my parents' backyard is old-growth New England forest. The river next to them always floods just before first snow, and so the water freezes and the trees look like they're growing from glass. You can see all of the colorful autumn foliage frozen under the ice, and so after it snows, when you kick it away with your foot, under the white blanket there's an explosion of red and orange and yellow. Neither region's beauty is mutually exclusive!


Yeah, Vermont and New Hampshire are sparsely-populated and largely undeveloped. It is a completely and totally different way of life.
I agree, California has some wonderful areas. By prepackaged, I meant more commercialized, more people visiting. The photos you showed were great, but I bet more people visit those areas in a month, or 6 months than visit some spots in vermont in 3 or 5 years.

Wikipedia cites that vermont has 621,000 people!! That's just a small slice of the san fernando valley. Sites in california are somewhat "packaged", you have to appeal to everyone. The signs have to be in 4 different languages so you don't "offend" anyone. You have to cater to everybody. This is generalizing. But California is waaaay out there in terms of appealing to everybody. One of the reasons why the state is flate broke. Whether it's good or bad.

Vermont and those 3 eastern states (vt, new hampshire, maine), far less people, less tourists. More room for yourself. Thats mostly what I mean by packaged. More room for yourself to do things. I think more individuality in those states (since they're relatively isolated). Just some observations.

But California still has wonderful areas.
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:37 AM
 
4,815 posts, read 5,421,360 times
Reputation: 2653
Why do people have to hate on California? Every state has stuck up/fake people. Every state has crime,pollution, etc. I wish people would stop trying to say it's only in California
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Old 07-06-2010, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
8,102 posts, read 6,133,951 times
Reputation: 8382
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I agree, California has some wonderful areas. By prepackaged, I meant more commercialized, more people visiting. The photos you showed were great, but I bet more people visit those areas in a month, or 6 months than visit some spots in vermont in 3 or 5 years.
From the standpoint of a proud New Englander (well, it's a long story, but I'm more New England than anywhere else), I find the general variation in wilderness across the region to be much more linear than in California, and I think that most people would agree with this. If you go to an area like Good Harbor in Mass anytime from spring to early autumn, it'll fit your definition of "prepackaged," as would be the case if you came anywhere near an apple orchard in Vermont. Hell, go to anywhere in the state of Maine spring or summer... their license plates say "VACATIONLAND" for a reason!

Quote:
Wikipedia cites that vermont has 621,000 people!! That's just a small slice of the san fernando valley. Sites in california are somewhat "packaged", you have to appeal to everyone.
Nature isn't "packaged," it just is. A National Park close to a major urban center is likely going to see more traffic than one that's 500 miles from one. Businesses will pop up on the borders leading into and out of the park itself to accomodate the larger number of people... for example, the drive from Seattle to Mt. Rainier. You hit dozens of fresh fruit stands that exist solely to cater to tourists; you have a "general store" that sells hardcore hiking items that any hardcore hiker would have brought with them... go to Smith Rock in Central Oregon, and you've got... a gas station. That's still ten miles away. And it closes at 6. Because Smith Rock is in the middle of nowhere.

When you get into the actual parks they're basically untouched. No packaging or posturing involved.

Quote:
The signs have to be in 4 different languages so you don't "offend" anyone.
It's not a matter of offending someone, it's a very utilitarian matter: people immigrate from Latin countries or Southeast Asia and their English blows. I bet that when my family came over from Sweden, theirs did to. So, to keep people who are acclimating to American society from doing things that are considered antisocial (like throwing a cigarette butt into a newspaper recycling bin; letting your dog lay cable on the sidewalk and leaving it for a city employee to pick up; etc), you put the languages that form the zeitgeist of the area up to keep things working OK.

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I really don't care if there are four languages on the side of a trashcan. Hell: if I see Spanish, that means I can probably get a good burrito somewhere nearby. If I see Chinese or Korean, it means my potential dating pool just grew 300%.

Quote:
You have to cater to everybody. This is generalizing. But California is waaaay out there in terms of appealing to everybody. One of the reasons why the state is flate broke. Whether it's good or bad.
I don't agree with how you're looking at things. California is not trying to appeal to everyone. It appealed and still appeals to many people, so many people come here.

Sometime in the late 70's, people from Vietnam started moving here. They took jobs, they learned English, they thought to themselves, "it sure would be swell if I could go to a Safeway, but it only sold goods that catered primarily to my Vietnamese-formed palate." So some enterprising individual did the American thing and opened up Ranch 99 Market and is now an American millionaire.

I don't see how this sort of thing is a negative, but hey, California isn't for everyone.

Quote:
Vermont and those 3 eastern states (vt, new hampshire, maine), far less people, less tourists. More room for yourself. Thats mostly what I mean by packaged. More room for yourself to do things. I think more individuality in those states (since they're relatively isolated). Just some observations.
From the standpoint of someone who has lived long durations in both areas at different pivotal points in their life, I would say that your propensity for being an "individual" in both are ultimately up to you, but California is more likely to accept that individuality.

There are things that I prefer a lot more "back home" in New England... and things I prefer more here. It all breaks down to your priorities; we obviously have different sensibilities in terms of what we look for and how we look at a place, which is fine. I just don't think that there's a point in turning the reality into something else to justify your preferences. Just admit you don't like it and leave it at that! You don't owe anyone an explanation until you try to make up reasons.

Quote:
But California still has wonderful areas.
Couldn't agree more! 95% of it.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:14 PM
 
304 posts, read 458,215 times
Reputation: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF View Post
Annoying grammar note: When you quote a word within a sentence that is followed by punctuation it goes within the quotation marks. I.e: If L.A. is "fake" then what cities are "real?"

Okay, sorry... haha

Interesting discussion but sadly I think it will turn into a flame war. The way I think of it more 'real' cities are cities wherein the incentive to move is pretty low - so often a city with a bad rap that is misunderstood is a little more 'real' or genuine to me.

Examples in MY experience have been cities like Oakland, CA; Cleveland, OH. Those two really come to mind most to me. (Again, just my experiences. The people seem very, very genuine.)

Examples of cities that I've experienced a great deal of rather fake people usually break down to the neighborhoods and not necessarily exclusive to cities as a whole, but L.A. comes to mind, San Francisco, and certain neighborhoods of NYC and Boston really come to mind.
I agree with everything you just said. Not only are the people of Oakland very genuine, but they also have a strong independent and non-conformist attitude in their thinking. They actually look down on people who do things like "air kiss." Cleveland folks put it all out there for you, take it or leave it. They never forget their roots.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 3,145,864 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
From the standpoint of a proud New Englander (well, it's a long story, but I'm more New England than anywhere else), I find the general variation in wilderness across the region to be much more linear than in California, and I think that most people would agree with this. If you go to an area like Good Harbor in Mass anytime from spring to early autumn, it'll fit your definition of "prepackaged," as would be the case if you came anywhere near an apple orchard in Vermont. Hell, go to anywhere in the state of Maine spring or summer... their license plates say "VACATIONLAND" for a reason!


Nature isn't "packaged," it just is. A National Park close to a major urban center is likely going to see more traffic than one that's 500 miles from one. Businesses will pop up on the borders leading into and out of the park itself to accomodate the larger number of people... for example, the drive from Seattle to Mt. Rainier. You hit dozens of fresh fruit stands that exist solely to cater to tourists; you have a "general store" that sells hardcore hiking items that any hardcore hiker would have brought with them... go to Smith Rock in Central Oregon, and you've got... a gas station. That's still ten miles away. And it closes at 6. Because Smith Rock is in the middle of nowhere.

When you get into the actual parks they're basically untouched. No packaging or posturing involved.


It's not a matter of offending someone, it's a very utilitarian matter: people immigrate from Latin countries or Southeast Asia and their English blows. I bet that when my family came over from Sweden, theirs did to. So, to keep people who are acclimating to American society from doing things that are considered antisocial (like throwing a cigarette butt into a newspaper recycling bin; letting your dog lay cable on the sidewalk and leaving it for a city employee to pick up; etc), you put the languages that form the zeitgeist of the area up to keep things working OK.

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I really don't care if there are four languages on the side of a trashcan. Hell: if I see Spanish, that means I can probably get a good burrito somewhere nearby. If I see Chinese or Korean, it means my potential dating pool just grew 300%.


I don't agree with how you're looking at things. California is not trying to appeal to everyone. It appealed and still appeals to many people, so many people come here.

Sometime in the late 70's, people from Vietnam started moving here. They took jobs, they learned English, they thought to themselves, "it sure would be swell if I could go to a Safeway, but it only sold goods that catered primarily to my Vietnamese-formed palate." So some enterprising individual did the American thing and opened up Ranch 99 Market and is now an American millionaire.

I don't see how this sort of thing is a negative, but hey, California isn't for everyone.


From the standpoint of someone who has lived long durations in both areas at different pivotal points in their life, I would say that your propensity for being an "individual" in both are ultimately up to you, but California is more likely to accept that individuality.

There are things that I prefer a lot more "back home" in New England... and things I prefer more here. It all breaks down to your priorities; we obviously have different sensibilities in terms of what we look for and how we look at a place, which is fine. I just don't think that there's a point in turning the reality into something else to justify your preferences. Just admit you don't like it and leave it at that! You don't owe anyone an explanation until you try to make up reasons.


Couldn't agree more! 95% of it.
Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't sure what John23 meant by pre-packaged. There aren't any commercialized areas around the Santa Monica Mt State park; just wild openland of foothills and canyons. Same thing with the Angeles Forest. There's hardly any stores or restaurants until you get to the little resort towns. Ever drive into Joshua Trees? Nothing but incredible boulders and weird cactus [some of the most amazing rock formations in the world and no stores but park naturalists stops and a bookstore]. There is a lot of wild land in California and why they caution people not to leave the main roads in the desert without plenty of water.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,828 posts, read 3,256,683 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
From the standpoint of a proud New Englander (well, it's a long story, but I'm more New England than anywhere else), I find the general variation in wilderness across the region to be much more linear than in California, and I think that most people would agree with this. If you go to an area like Good Harbor in Mass anytime from spring to early autumn, it'll fit your definition of "prepackaged," as would be the case if you came anywhere near an apple orchard in Vermont. Hell, go to anywhere in the state of Maine spring or summer... their license plates say "VACATIONLAND" for a reason!


Nature isn't "packaged," it just is. A National Park close to a major urban center is likely going to see more traffic than one that's 500 miles from one. Businesses will pop up on the borders leading into and out of the park itself to accomodate the larger number of people... for example, the drive from Seattle to Mt. Rainier. You hit dozens of fresh fruit stands that exist solely to cater to tourists; you have a "general store" that sells hardcore hiking items that any hardcore hiker would have brought with them... go to Smith Rock in Central Oregon, and you've got... a gas station. That's still ten miles away. And it closes at 6. Because Smith Rock is in the middle of nowhere.

When you get into the actual parks they're basically untouched. No packaging or posturing involved.


It's not a matter of offending someone, it's a very utilitarian matter: people immigrate from Latin countries or Southeast Asia and their English blows. I bet that when my family came over from Sweden, theirs did to. So, to keep people who are acclimating to American society from doing things that are considered antisocial (like throwing a cigarette butt into a newspaper recycling bin; letting your dog lay cable on the sidewalk and leaving it for a city employee to pick up; etc), you put the languages that form the zeitgeist of the area up to keep things working OK.

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I really don't care if there are four languages on the side of a trashcan. Hell: if I see Spanish, that means I can probably get a good burrito somewhere nearby. If I see Chinese or Korean, it means my potential dating pool just grew 300%.


I don't agree with how you're looking at things. California is not trying to appeal to everyone. It appealed and still appeals to many people, so many people come here.

Sometime in the late 70's, people from Vietnam started moving here. They took jobs, they learned English, they thought to themselves, "it sure would be swell if I could go to a Safeway, but it only sold goods that catered primarily to my Vietnamese-formed palate." So some enterprising individual did the American thing and opened up Ranch 99 Market and is now an American millionaire.

I don't see how this sort of thing is a negative, but hey, California isn't for everyone.


From the standpoint of someone who has lived long durations in both areas at different pivotal points in their life, I would say that your propensity for being an "individual" in both are ultimately up to you, but California is more likely to accept that individuality.

There are things that I prefer a lot more "back home" in New England... and things I prefer more here. It all breaks down to your priorities; we obviously have different sensibilities in terms of what we look for and how we look at a place, which is fine. I just don't think that there's a point in turning the reality into something else to justify your preferences. Just admit you don't like it and leave it at that! You don't owe anyone an explanation until you try to make up reasons.


Couldn't agree more! 95% of it.

Good post. I haven't spent that long in those areas. I was in mas in 1996 (went to boston, marthas vineyard, nantucket, cape cod). Then I went 2 years ago in the fall (oct) to framingham (near boston) and to salem (that was cool, being there near halloween!).

Vt, I was incredibly impressed with when I went there a few years ago. Saw ben and jerrys factory. Saw a chocolate, candy factor south of burlington. Rutland, and a few other little towns.

I was impressed with how clean it was, how sparkling green everything was. The covered bridges were great.

My general impression of that area, was just an incredible lack of people. I think the population total among the 3 states is 3.5 million or so (vt, nh, maine).

With "packaging", take Maine lighthouses as an example. They all look picture-esque.

maine lighthouse - Google Search

California has a lot of great natural areas, but the state is so commercialized, you don't get the same picture-esque quality. And it doesn't have the history that eastern states have (since they've been around so long). Everything looked relatively unblemished in those states. I guess between the weather (clean air), lack of people, and local laws/regulations, everything has been kept looking really nice.

I agree california is more likely to accept your individuality. Whether blue hair, nose ring, wild clothes, sexual orientation. Most states (esp midwest) are much more conservative than la or other parts of california.
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:31 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,110 times
Reputation: 14
I was raised in L.A. and moved to a town between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. People in L.A. are far more real than these small corrupt northeastern towns. No one trusts anyone here and you only move up socially by joining a country club. In L.A. a millionaire will invite you to a party just because they like you. Here it's all about who your father was and how much money you have, Pretense like that is boring and I can't wait to get back to L.A. where people might be fake but they are a hell of a lot more fun!
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:20 AM
 
1,841 posts, read 2,173,325 times
Reputation: 1070
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rambler View Post
One of the major complaints I hear frequently concerning Los Angeles is that it is "fake" or "plastic". What does this mean, really? And if this is the case, then what city would be the antithesis of L.A.? What city do you people who feel L.A. is fake do you think is the most "real" or genuine, and by what standard do you measure this? I don't mean this to be inflammatory, I'm just honestly a bit confused by it and would like to open up a discourse as to what it really means.Thanks!
I think that perception comes from Hollywood. The only thing I will say is...if there is such as thing as an across the board stereotype...that people here can be shallow. If you come from out of state or are foreign and you are dirty, you stink, or are missing teeth, poor/broke, obese or sloppy, then true Angelenos probably won't like you. If your idea of a "night on the town" consists of taking the family to Burger King, for example, that's not considered cool. People here have traditionally held ourselves to higher standards far as appearance and presentation. That's my opinion.

Last edited by Jay100; 09-03-2010 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:14 PM
 
739 posts, read 490,709 times
Reputation: 428
I think the difference between fake and real are usually personal preference. HOWEVER, in my opinion, if you want to find an area saturated with fake people, please come to DC, which my friends and I like to call "Hollywood for ugly people." Everyone here thinks they are famous in my age group (24-32) as a model, or a promoter or a rapper, even though they're most likely a consultant or a federal worker which is hardly glamorous

You would never have a conversation with a random person on the street or meet someone in a club that didn't include where you went to college and what law firm, contractor, or govt agency you work for. How's that for fake? At least in LA people are usually a bit more willing to speak to you or nod if they pass you on the street as opposed to scowling at you like you asked if you could eat their first born

As for real cities IMO: Baltimore, Detroit, Phoenix
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