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Old 07-31-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,330,015 times
Reputation: 1802

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1200RT View Post
very little reason displayed here .... reason views all angles of a problem, no just one sliver.

Yes, employers need to be accountable. But the argument that we can punish employers, and take away the work ... which will in turn stop the problem is flawed.

When you attack a problem, you attack it on all fronts, not just one. Yes - you would likely slow down immigration if you fought employers. But what would that do to address the immigrants who stand around all day looking for work? Certainly they don't have an employer that we can punish.

Thankfully, people still see this as the "land of opportunity", and will continue to see it that way. Do you REALLY think the immigrants are following (or even care) that we are cracking down on employers?

Giant oil spill in the Gulf: Do we JUST address the cleanup? Do we JUST address the company regulations that caused the problem? Do we JUST address the continuing spill of oil? NO ... we address all of the issues at once.
You are, of-course, correct and why the immigrant issue is somewhat complicated. A very poor nation next to a very wealthy nation, so to speak, is naturally going to create situations where people will immigrate. Being poor in California is comparable to living fairly well in Mexico. So it seems that the U.S. would want to invest as much as possible in helping Mexico develop its resources so people would stay in their own country. During the massive European immigration to America, people came for a better life that wasn't as available to them in countries like Ireland, Italy, Sweden, etc. Now the number of Europeans immigrating to the U.S. is a fraction of what is was a century ago. To some extent the same thing occurred in China.

So it seems that the U.S. would benefit by assisting Mexico and other Latin American countries in development, birth control and democratic ideals. I look at all the resources our nation is pouring into the Middle-East [including tremendous loss of American lives] where we aren't even welcome yet just across the border is a nation that actually likes the U.S. and desperately needs our help.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,333,939 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
So it seems that the U.S. would benefit by assisting Mexico and other Latin American countries in development, birth control and democratic ideals. I look at all the resources our nation is pouring into the Middle-East [including tremendous loss of American lives] where we aren't even welcome yet just across the border is a nation that actually likes the U.S. and desperately needs our help.
So why don't we just invade and take them over like they're doing to us?

Either way and in either direction it's preposterous.

Americans can't even sneak into and stay in Canada unless they're draft-dodgers.

What a world!
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,330,015 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
So why don't we just invade and take them over like they're doing to us?

Either way and in either direction it's preposterous.

Americans can't even sneak into and stay in Canada unless they're draft-dodgers.

What a world!
What? I think you missed the point, AGAIN! The U.S. provides aid to countries all over the world and especially assists nations that have high poverty [ie. African countries]. By helping Mexico create a working-class\ middle-class it translates into helping the U.S. where we have more markets for our goods. This is simple economics, you know. Or maybe you don't!
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,280 posts, read 6,063,177 times
Reputation: 3924
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal35 View Post
Not a fair post Curmudgeon. I assume you are just joking.

But you saw CalSur's prior post...he's clearly stating these folks should come out of the shadows, pay a fine, become citizens if they pass the basic scutiny test. What is so outrageous about that position?
It's outrageous that they can break the law and then become citizens. My husband and his eight sisters were all able to come to this country legally without being rich. My aunt's parents were both able to come to this country legally while being quite poor. Plenty of people come here legally, and those who didn't should not be rewarded.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,333,939 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
What? I think you missed the point, AGAIN! The U.S. provides aid to countries all over the world and especially assists nations that have high poverty [ie. African countries]. By helping Mexico create a working-class\ middle-class it translates into helping the U.S. where we have more markets for our goods. This is simple economics, you know. Or maybe you don't!
Actually, after years of legislative and fiscal analysis experience, I do.

As long as we're willing to give up the farm we'll receive no lasting benefit from our largesse and just continue to be taken advantage of.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Mt Washington: NELA
1,162 posts, read 3,227,113 times
Reputation: 642
Familiar with cause and effect, perhaps?

I NEVER said it was a simple solution to the problem. I merely proposed giving it a try. And where precisely is the 'flaw'? Back it up. This is a forum, after all. I certainly don't have all the answers. Oh yeah, and I could do without the lecture.

I'm not talking about workers 'standing around' Home Depot looking for a gig shucking lumber or moving a washer upstairs. I don't believe they are the targets of AZ's rage (maybe they are, I don't know). But I'm talking about the construction and hospitality industries, among others. It's THOSE employers I am concerned with.

Again, I just don't think rounding up a bunch of 'brunettes' is going to address 'all fronts' of the problem, any more than my 'solution' would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1200RT View Post
very little reason displayed here .... reason views all angles of a problem, no just one sliver.

Yes, employers need to be accountable. But the argument that we can punish employers, and take away the work ... which will in turn stop the problem is flawed.

When you attack a problem, you attack it on all fronts, not just one. Yes - you would likely slow down immigration if you fought employers. But what would that do to address the immigrants who stand around all day looking for work? Certainly they don't have an employer that we can punish.

Thankfully, people still see this as the "land of opportunity", and will continue to see it that way. Do you REALLY think the immigrants are following (or even care) that we are cracking down on employers?

Giant oil spill in the Gulf: Do we JUST address the cleanup? Do we JUST address the company regulations that caused the problem? Do we JUST address the continuing spill of oil? NO ... we address all of the issues at once.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,209,149 times
Reputation: 49245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel NC View Post
Why did LA Boycott Arizona? Zonies are like half of your overall yearly visitors! San Diego was like crying in our face saying they werent boycotting us, beacause we are san diegos tourism industry! Good luck getting Arizona Visitors, I was in hollywood earlier this year, and I dont plan to go back anytime soon, until LA lifts the boycott. LA has bigger problems then focusing on what arizonas doing.
The sad thing about all this: only the city leaders are doing this and it appears they do not represent their constituents. There will always be a few that have no concern with your state, even a few who say they love your state, they have been to Grand Canyon (big deal) but obviously they love the idea of illegals staying in the country more. Other than the handful of them, a few here on the boards, it isn't the people of Los Angeles that are boycotting, it is a symbol, voted on by a bunch of city coumcil members.

Good luck to you and to AZ.

Nita
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,209,149 times
Reputation: 49245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel NC View Post
Yeah, but at sky harbor, where my father works, they havnt had any people from LA come on business trips. last i heard, LA banned all official business to Arizona
My, your father must be more important than our President, if he has talked to everyone on every airplane that has landed in the past 2 months flying from So Ca. and if you believe that I have some desert property I will sell you in Florida...Of course your remark is totally off the wall. You obviously do not understand a political boycott and you don't know much about politics. You made a statement, Brewer has a small chance of being re-elected. I don't know if she will win, chances are she will but she isn't being re-elected, she never ran for Governor.

Nita
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Mt Washington: NELA
1,162 posts, read 3,227,113 times
Reputation: 642
Actually, that statement is correct and relevant, regarding business flights from Los Angeles to Arizona. He's just being observant, if you ask me. I used to fly into Sky Harbor and it would be pretty easy to spot the shortage of flights (largely Southwest) arriving from Los Angeles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/us...LESAP_BRF.html
Los Angeles approves Arizona business boycott - CNN.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
My, your father must be more important than our President, if he has talked to everyone on every airplane that has landed in the past 2 months flying from So Ca. and if you believe that I have some desert property I will sell you in Florida...Of course your remark is totally off the wall.

Nita
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,330,015 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
The sad thing about all this: only the city leaders are doing this and it appears they do not represent their constituents. There will always be a few that have no concern with your state, even a few who say they love your state, they have been to Grand Canyon (big deal) but obviously they love the idea of illegals staying in the country more. Other than the handful of them, a few here on the boards, it isn't the people of Los Angeles that are boycotting, it is a symbol, voted on by a bunch of city coumcil members.

Good luck to you and to AZ.

Nita
Wrong again and the usual cop-out by Republicans. The Los Angeles mayor and city council are elected by the PEOPLE. They represent the PEOPLE. If the PEOPLE don't agree with the actions of the mayor and 15 seat city council the PEOPLE will not vote for them in the next election. You want to guess how many city council members will lose their seats over the boycott of Arizona? Want to try ZERO?

Polls in Los Angeles were basically split 50\50 for and against the Arizona law. Do you think the Los Angeles city council will lost 50% of their seats? Same applies to Carson, Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Pasadena, etc. In-fact, the entire county of Los Angeles is boycotting Arizona. So the numerous cities and Los Angeles county don't represent their constituents?

You live in Arkansas not California. Sometimes I think you get them mixed up.
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