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"Poor people don't want to be poor." (???) Um, duh? Although I agree that they are convenient targets.
"Duh" is right, but that otherwise obvious fact seems to be ever more lost in these days of crap economic conditions. And in these down cycles, the hysterical haters always turn their vitriol towards the same groups who have withering ability to defend themselves. One of the more unfortunate aspects of L.A.
I was fortunate to attend LA City Schools before the era where they got ruined.
LA City School District merged with the county school district to form LAUSD back in the '60s, so you're dating yourself.
Sounds like you're the same age as my mother, or Nita. (Dad went to HS in Cleveland, OH)
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My high school was divided into three tracks: basic, regular and academic, where I was in the academic track of those who intended to attend college. Most of the kids in my classes also intended to attend college
Even the girls? From talking to my mother, who attended Hollywood High back when it was considered a very good school (seems impossible to believe now), neither her nor almost all of her friends went on to college. Back in the '50s it seemed like most girls got married straight out of high school. OTOH most of the brothers of of my mom's HS friends did go to college.
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and we were all competing to out-do each other academically. The dunces all sat in basic classes where they were isolated from those of us with goals.
Fast forward to today and from what I hear LAUSD schools are mostly ruined.
All LAUSD comprehensives have been ruined. Only the magnets (which didn't exist in your era) and charters (which also didn't exist in your era) have been spared. All the more reason to eliminate the comprehensive altogether (or, even better, break up LAUSD, which would make a HUGE part of L.A. family friendly again - there is nowhere in LAUSD territory that is family friendly by definition)
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I imagine they tease smart kids now.
This was also true back in the late '70s and '80s at MOST schools that were unfortunate enough to be in LAUSD.
It wasn't true at Uni in those years (where I went to HS, and which was considered LAUSD's crown jewel so as to speak), but from having friends who went to Venice and especially Hamilton (the latter was DEFINITELY the worst LAUSD westside comprehensive at the time - its decline started much earlier than the other westside LAUSD schools), it was very true there. Ironically, today Venice is considered "less bad" than the other LAUSD westside comprehensives (i.e. merely terrible rather than unspeakably awful beyond words). In fact - when I lived in Culver City I gave my address to some of my friends who lived in LAUSD just so their kids could attend Culver (a great school when I was a teen, a decent school now - not up to Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, or South Bay levels, but FAR better than LAUSD comprehensives).
Yes I am dating myself. (I need to meet more women!) I graduated college in the late '60s, you can work out the math.
In high school I hung around with the academic set and most of my friends went to college, even the girls, and many of us went to UCLA. All of us were motivated by our parents to get our college degrees so we could have good careers. Back in "those days" it was fashionable to think that you could educate yourself and that college would pay off in future career earnings. That was before it became "too hard" to learn things.
Back in the day it was almost seamless from K to 12 and then on to UCLA or CSUN. It really was practical to get a good education all of it in public schools. That was before the school was ruined, flooded at the bottom end by low quality students. That was back in the days when almost everybody spoke English. These days the schools have to target the lowest common denominator. Those who are gifted are in many cases too smart to benefit from the school system. Except in those magnet schools of course, but I know nothing of that and not much to say.
Well, over 350,000 Hispanic citizens here. Apparently, the "problem"?. I cringe to query whether those that share such an opinion have some sort of "solution" to this. Would it be a final one?
Maybe the folks who live in the so-called armpit areas don't have barrels of cash pouring out of their Mercedes trunks, like the fine folks in Los Gatos, Saratoga, or Palo Alto. Same bit in various parts of L.A. - poor people don't really want to be poor, whatever their color is, but they're a pretty damn easy target for some people to lay blame on.
There is a solution and it's education. Having lived and worked in the worst of the worst areas (and still working there sometimes), you can see the difference between those who care about where they live and those who don't.
Like I said in my little story about my family and I, we came to this country with some bad habits that were accepted in ours. Immigrants always come to a new country with habits that are hard to break but that's what assimilation is all about. I'm not going to spew out some crap about how immigrants that come to this country should completely give up their culture and language; that's not assimilation. What many people on this board fail to realize is that assimilation goes both ways. The culture coming in blends in with the culture that's already here and, ideally, we end up with the best of both worlds. But I digress.
The point is that expectations have to be given and they have to be given by fellow expatriates or the immigrant will most likely be reluctant to listen. My parents were told by my aunt and they were shown the consequences if they didn't follow her advice. Thanks to that advice, eventhough we ended up in those areas, we didn't become like the majority of the people around us.
For example, my father had a group of four bachelors who rented a one bedroom apartment and after six months they told him that they wanted to switch to another apartment when one became available. When my father asked them why they told him, "Because the apartment is too dirty." See, their mentality was that, since they were men and there were no women around, they didn't have to clean and it was perfectly reasonable to ask for a new apartment once the one they had got too filthy. There were women in the same building who made money off of bachelors like them by cooking their meals. I would see plastic bags filled with food (good smelling to boot) like tamales or pupusas hanging from doorknobs at lunchtime. One lady even made enough to start her own diner down the street and it's still in business to this day. But I digress again.
See, those guys should've been at least told by someone that just because you pay rent it doesn't give you the right to trash someone else's property. They should've also been told that, in this country, the dividing lines ("racial" and economic) of the countries that we come from no longer exist. But they bring them along with them anyway and keep the old status quo. I saw scores of people going to night school in that neighborhood (mostly to learn english) but not a single one of them was an "indian". They settle into what we consider sub par living conditions because they come from living in clay rooms with dirt floors and one outhouse for an entire building. And all the while they listen to radio stations in spanish with announcers that glorify ignorance and stagnation.
The men spend all their extra time and money drinking instead of saving to get a better place. The women get themselves knocked up and, when they have their own children, instead of learning from their mistakes and talking openly to their children about sex so they don't end up in a precarious situation of their own, they opt for being religious and hoping for the best. And, since they don't encourage their children to do anything else, those children are doomed to lead the same type of life.
Heh. I once had a girl come in, take a look at the apartment, fill out all the paperwork, get approved, sign the lease and schedule a move-in date. Four hours later she came back and wanted to shred the lease and made me return all her money (minus the credit check deposit) because she had walked down the street towards, you guessed it, McArthur park.
And the sad thing is that we are not allowed to warn people if they do ask about crime in the area or at the building itself. Apartment owners are truly skanky people. Sadly, its the managers of the buildings who get all the blame and grief.
Once I get out of this business FOR GOOD in October we'll have to share more "war" stories, LOL!
There is a solution and it's education. Having lived and worked in the worst of the worst areas (and still working there sometimes), you can see the difference between those who care about where they live and those who don't.
YES! I totally agree.
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For example, my father had a group of four bachelors who rented a one bedroom apartment and after six months they told him that they wanted to switch to another apartment when one became available. When my father asked them why they told him, "Because the apartment is too dirty."
This same mentality exists in the UK with immigrants from the Middle East, both men and women. I once witnessed an Iraqi man screaming at, and finally threatening, a council housing agent because he was told to CLEAN his current house instead of requesting a new one. The agent finally had enough and said some rather amusing, if vulgar, words, LOL!
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The men spend all their extra time and money drinking instead of saving to get a better place. The women get themselves knocked up and, when they have their own children, instead of learning from their mistakes and talking openly to their children about sex so they don't end up in a precarious situation of their own, they opt for being religious and hoping for the best. And, since they don't encourage their children to do anything else, those children are doomed to lead the same type of life.
THOSE are the people that nobody's talking about.
You have nicely summed up what I have been trying to say, but have been failing at
I also agree with your comments about assimilation. It isn't about completely giving up ones own culture, only those aspects of it which are considered unacceptable in the new host country. True assimilation is about blending together the best of many cultures and weeding out the bad.
Many people assume that some cultures are exactly the same as ours because we happen to share the same language. This is so untrue and can lead to some embarassing moments for the uneducated, LOL! Two very good examples of this are personal experiences dues to the difference in my American culture and my husband's British Geordie culture...
Me: when I moved to the UK I did not know that the word "fanny" had a whole different connotation in the UK than it does here. So, one day I stood out in the back garden and yelled to my son..."Jez, get your fanny in here for tea!" When I heard my husband's uproarious laughter and saw the look of mortification on my son's face I knew I had just committed some sort of faux paux, but didn't know what it was. When I found out I was gob smacked!
My husband: One night I took my husband to a local bar & dinerin Mesa, AZ to shoot some pool and have a beer. We were playing against some nice young lads we had met. You should have seen the look on their faces when my husband said..."I'm going out front to roll a f-a-g."
Last edited by Cyanna; 08-13-2010 at 10:59 AM..
Reason: correction
Like I said in my little story about my family and I, we came to this country with some bad habits that were accepted in ours. Immigrants always come to a new country with habits that are hard to break but that's what assimilation is all about. I'm not going to spew out some crap about how immigrants that come to this country should completely give up their culture and language; that's not assimilation. What many people on this board fail to realize is that assimilation goes both ways. The culture coming in blends in with the culture that's already here and, ideally, we end up with the best of both worlds. But I digress.
I have just one major problem with lack of assimilation: Learn to speak English!!! I don't have any problem with any of the rest of it, and some of the culture I really like, particularly the cuisines like Mexican food, Asian food, etc.
When immigrants won't learn English then their problem becomes mine when it is necessary to communicate with them.
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Originally Posted by Cyanna
This same mentality exists in the UK with immigrants from the Middle East, both men and women. I once witnessed an Iraqi man screaming at, and finally threatening, a council housing agent because he was told to CLEAN his current house instead of requesting a new one. The agent finally had enough and said some rather amusing, if vulgar, words, LOL!
Maybe the agent should have just withheld their cleaning deposit and charged any additional cleaning expenses and let them move. Paying a bunch of money is one way to teach a lesson. Or even help them contact some kind of cleaning service and let them pay the service to keep their apartment clean.
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Originally Posted by Cyanna
Me: when I moved to the UK I did not know that the word "fanny" had a whole different connotation in the UK than it does here. So, one day I stood out in the back garden and yelled to my son..."Jez, get your fanny in here for tea!" When I heard my husband's uproarious laughter and saw the look of mortification on my son's face I knew I had just committed some sort of faux paux, but didn't know what it was. When I found out I was gob smacked!
I don't know of any other connotation of "fanny" other than same as butt. Care to explain?
I have just one major problem with lack of assimilation: Learn to speak English!!!
The no English speaking thing rarely extends beyond the immigrant parents (assuming they become parents). The kids grow up to be bilingual, and that's a good thing. The generations beyond the first one are the ones that become less and less immersed in the mother tongue of the old country.
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Originally Posted by Lovehound
I don't know of any other connotation of "fanny" other than same as butt. Care to explain?
Maybe the agent should have just withheld their cleaning deposit and charged any additional cleaning expenses and let them move. Paying a bunch of money is one way to teach a lesson. Or even help them contact some kind of cleaning service and let them pay the service to keep their apartment clean.
That would simplify things, IF they required a security deposit on council housing in the UK Here's the difference between renting in the UK and renting in the USA... In the USA when we rent a house or an apartment we can generally expect that the new place will be "move in ready" with fresh paint, new or cleaned carpets, a stove and sometimes a refrigerator and it will be CLEAN. In the UK it is common to move into a property which has not been cleaned, has no carpeting or flooring, nor any type of appliances and the walls often have to be painted or the wallpaper removed because the vacating tenants have grafittied the walls or partially ripped up the wallpaper, leaving it hanging in strips from the walls. Often there is a shattered toilet that needs to be replaced. Brits vacating council housing are very, very destructive to the property.
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I don't know of any other connotation of "fanny" other than same as butt. Care to explain?
You had to ask, didn't you? In the UK "fanny" is a reference to the vagina, hence my mortification. What we call "fanny packs" are refered to as bum bags over there. As a side note, my husband, the Brit, actually works with a woman named Fanny. Last week he was given a memo that read..."Please give Fanny the tool she has requested." As you can imagine my husband found this hilarious
The no English speaking thing rarely extends beyond the immigrant parents (assuming they become parents). The kids grow up to be bilingual, and that's a good thing. The generations beyond the first one are the ones that become less and less immersed in the mother tongue of the old country.
But that's the problem!!! Spanish speakers are illegally migrating at such a huge volume that they settle into Spanish speaking enclaves and they DON'T bother to learn English!
Yeah their kids learn to speak English for the most part, but that solves the problem 20 years from now and I have a problem right at the present. And besides, if this huge wave of immigration continues we'll have just the same problem in 20 years!
I have a book to recommend to everybody, a book that explains why this migration is different than previous ones:
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Here's the difference between renting in the UK and renting in the USA... In the USA when we rent a house or an apartment we can generally expect that the new place will be "move in ready" with fresh paint, new or cleaned carpets, a stove and sometimes a refrigerator and it will be CLEAN. In the UK it is common to move into a property which has not been cleaned, has no carpeting or flooring, nor any type of appliances and the walls often have to be painted or the wallpaper removed because the vacating tenants have grafittied the walls or partially ripped up the wallpaper, leaving it hanging in strips from the walls. Often there is a shattered toilet that needs to be replaced. Brits vacating council housing are very, very destructive to the property.
What we call "fanny packs" are refered to as bum bags over there. As a side note, my husband, the Brit, actually works with a woman named Fanny. Last week he was given a memo that read..."Please give Fanny the tool she has requested." As you can imagine my husband found this hilarious 
