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Old 09-14-2010, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
749 posts, read 946,526 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
Those views just seem simplistic, idyllstic, and so far out of left field that it's just nuts. Nazis? Is that your answer for everything American? Fact: America fought the Nazis, first of all, and helped liberate the Jews. English is the official language of the USA, like it or not. Just like Japan's official language is Japanese. China's language is Chinese. Saudi Arabia's language is Arab. Guatemala's language is Spanish. Russia's language is Russia. So if the USA is "nazi" then so are most of the other countries in the world. I've travelled abroad and it is considered "rude" to make no attempt to speak the native language. Respect your host country.
A couple of quick points:

1. Yes, I wasn NOT accusing the United States of being a Nazi police state. I can trace family members who fought againt the Nazis in WWII so no need to tell me that. I was directing my comments at one INDIVIDUAL.

2. Yes, I was being a bit extreme using the term Nazi. However, it was only in reaction to the extreme statement that nobody should speak Spanish outside of their home. That DOES strike me as borderline police state/big brother.

3. Again, there is NO official language in the United States. It was debated while the founders were drafting the constitution but there Germans and other groups in the country at that time. So the issue was wisely left out of the constitution.

Finally, don't get me wrong I think every immigrant SHOULD learn English. But to suggest that people should ONLY speak English in public or that everyone should have to conduct their business only in English really does run againt the American spirit in my opinion. This is a free country and let's leave it that way........
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,709 posts, read 15,315,251 times
Reputation: 16518
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluSpark View Post
A couple of quick points:

...or that everyone should have to conduct their business only in English really does run againt the American spirit in my opinion. This is a free country and let's leave it that way........
A couple of quick points of my own. By the same token, those people who wish to conduct their busiuness in a language other than English should have no exzpectation that they will be understood, nor should businesses in America, unless they choose to exlusively serve a particular population, be expected to provide and bear the expense of multi-lingual services. Government appears to feel otherwise in many instances. They call it "multi-cultural services." So much for freedom!

I have lived in three other countries and became conversant in their languages and fairly proficient with their customs. It was up to me to accomodate them on their own soil, not the other way around.

Please rethink your gratuitous use of the term, "Nazi." While you had relatives who fought against them, as did I, I also had seven I know of perish in their camps. The point can be made using other, less incendiary terms. Thank you!

As to the matter at hand, stereotyping is never attractive and rarely accurate.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
749 posts, read 946,526 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
A couple of quick points of my own. By the same token, those people who wish to conduct their busiuness in a language other than English should have no exzpectation that they will be understood, nor should businesses in America, unless they choose to exlusively serve a particular population, be expected to provide and bear the expense of multi-lingual services. Government appears to feel otherwise in many instances. They call it "multi-cultural services." So much for freedom!

I have lived in three other countries and became conversant in their languages and fairly proficient with their customs. It was up to me to accomodate them on their own soil, not the other way around.

Please rethink your gratuitous use of the term, "Nazi." While you had relatives who fought against them, as did I, I also had seven I know of perish in their camps. The point can be made using other, less incendiary terms. Thank you!

As to the matter at hand, stereotyping is never attractive and rarely accurate.
Crumudgeon: I think I already pulled back from my use of that term after my initial post. I agree it is an overused (and abused) term and I simply lost my cool by using it.

At the same time, I do think the poster suggesting we ban Spanish from public places is being quite EXTREME. I mean while were at it let's have make make sure the Orthodox Jews walking to synagogue speak only in English. From reading some of your other posts, I think you'd agree that is just NUTS.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:26 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula
1,481 posts, read 1,342,155 times
Reputation: 2264
i agree with bluspark, and again, if there were justice in the world, we would all be speaking some variant of cherokee or navajo etc. so all you "speak english" bellyachers need to get over and realize what goes around comes around, and bloody deal with it.
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:01 PM
 
159 posts, read 205,523 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
I LOVE this guy with the video camera, LOL!

YouTube - Van Nuys Home Depot Day Labor Site; 9-2-07, Clip 1
While I'm all for cracking down on illegal immigration, this video makes me feel bad for the day laborer. Camera man seems like a jerk. I mean, wouldn't it better for the day laborer to be busy working instead of engaging in petty theft, etc?
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:07 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,404 posts, read 7,691,574 times
Reputation: 2163

Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthouse66 View Post
I think a good way to do it would be for anyone from Mexico to come here legally and make it a point to learn English, and be proud of the fact that they can speak the native language. It's fine if they want to speak Spanish in their own home, or with others of Mexican descent, but when conducting business or out in public, it's English. Not Spanglish. English.
uh huh. i am sure that the native tribes that between the Spaniards and Manifest Destiny nearly got wiped out would have appreciated a little assimilation on our part too. they didn't get it either- in case you have never been on a res. maybe you should visit one.

Just going to Costco this weekend in Burbank, practically every other person was speaking spanish. It wouldn't normally drive me so crazy, but they tend to speak louder than english speaking people, almost as if to flaunt it or rub it in.
tend to speak louder than english speaking people? yeah. maybe they were trying to yell over the din off all those black people buying their chicken and watermelon. or the sound of the jews raking in the cash. let's see, what other moronic sweeping statements can we make?
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
18,709 posts, read 15,315,251 times
Reputation: 16518
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluSpark View Post
At the same time, I do think the poster suggesting we ban Spanish from public places is being quite EXTREME. I mean while were at it let's have make make sure the Orthodox Jews walking to synagogue speak only in English. From reading some of your other posts, I think you'd agree that is just NUTS.
I agree, it's extreme. I think anyone raised to be bilingual or milti-lingual is fortunate. However, if you know the predominate language of the country in which you're residing, I think it rude not to use it in public amongst native speakers. If you don't know it, I think it incumbent upon you to learn it.

That shouldn't require government fiat. It's simply a matter of consideration and belonging.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,237 posts, read 3,598,828 times
Reputation: 1672
I think it goes too far though. We already have voting ballots in so many different language not to mention billboard advertisements as well.

What's going to be next? Verses of the national anthem at sporting event in multiple languages!:-(
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula
1,481 posts, read 1,342,155 times
Reputation: 2264
I think it rude not to use it in public amongst native speakers. If you don't know it, I think it incumbent upon you to learn it.
i don't think the poster who was complaining about the loud latino speakers in burbank was quite making the same point. saying that latinos speak spanish loudly to "rub it in" is, as one other poster put it, just about the stupidest thing i have heard anyone say on here. saying its rude to speak in public a language that is not native- again i make the argument that this used to be MEXICO, and if you want to talk about cultural heritage, even as a white southerner i will make the argument that california's spanish-speaking heritage gives it a unique place in the annals of american history as a place where it is PART OF THE HERITAGE TO SPEAK SPANISH. NOT ENGLISH. (sorry i am yelling in capitols but this is getting a little silly.) i would question why ANYBODY would want to live in california if they cannot reckon with that. ever seen a mission? you know, those things all over california with historical markers on em? cultural heritage. spanish names. and lets see, what is the original name of los angeles? El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula.
I wish i could speak spanish. i would go to burbank to the costco and start saying that over and over again. loudly. assimilation goes both ways.

Last edited by nighthouse66; 09-14-2010 at 04:43 PM.. Reason: Additional point
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,689,744 times
Reputation: 2248
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthouse66 View Post
I think it rude not to use it in public amongst native speakers. If you don't know it, I think it incumbent upon you to learn it.
i don't think the poster who was complaining about the loud latino speakers in burbank was quite making the same point. saying that latinos speak spanish loudly to "rub it in" is, as one other poster put it, just about the stupidest thing i have heard anyone say on here. saying its rude to speak in public a language that is not native- again i make the argument that this used to be MEXICO, and if you want to talk about cultural heritage, even as a white southerner i will make the argument that california's spanish-speaking heritage gives it a unique place in the annals of american history as a place where it is PART OF THE HERITAGE TO SPEAK SPANISH. NOT ENGLISH. (sorry i am yelling in capitols but this is getting a little silly.) i would question why ANYBODY would want to live in california if they cannot reckon with that. ever seen a mission? you know, those things all over california with historical markers on em? cultural heritage. spanish names. and lets see, what is the original name of los angeles? El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río de Porciúncula.
I wish i could speak spanish. i would go to burbank to the costco and start saying that over and over again. loudly.
Hah, funny story is that I'm about to head over to that Costco right now (yeah, there are 2 nearer ones but I'm doing something in North Hollywood later).

I don't understand why people are so offended that people are speaking another language around them? I'm not a native Spanish speaker, but it has NEVER bothered me in person, nor has it affected my quality of life one bit. Let people speak whatever they want in public because they have EVERY right to. I don't even care if they're talking about ME, because obviously if they can't say it to my face for me to understand, its not worth hearing.

Jesus Christ! Is this how sensitive Americans have become? No matter what someone does, someone always gets offended like we constantly need people to give us a hug and hand us a tissue so we can "talk about our feelings". There are worse things that could happen to a country, like having 10% unemployment and being in the midst of the worst economic downturn since the 30s. How about a nice little world war that could wipe us all out tomorrow, making EVERY issue we've ever had, a moot one?

On one hand, I think most immigrants to the US already know that if they don't learn at LEAST rudimentary English, their opportunities for economic advancement is significantly decreased. Fine, if they don't want to learn it, that's really on them. Yes, there are communities around the US that its totally possible to live life without knowing English, but at the end of the day, they are really restricted to those communities. There's NO possible way to generate wealth WITHOUT having a way to communicate to people. That's the reality of the global economy.

What bothers ME about this whole conversation is that even IF strides were made...say tomorrow, I don't think credit will be given where credit is due. Instead, the same old stereotypes will be thrown out ad naseum because its a whole lot easier to communicate. Despite the fact that LA is the SAFEST it has been since the 1950s (source: Los Angeles crime rates hit 50-year lows | abc7.com), people will STILL find things to complain about.

If you don't like Hispanic neighborhoods or Hispanics, that's really your problem, because SHORT of ethnic cleansing (which I KNOW many, many people wouldn't mind doing) they aren't going anywhere. Even IF you got rid of the illegal ones, there will still be MILLIONS of legal Hispanics in LA. If you live in Southern California, that's the reality. If you don't like it, fine. Move. It's your money, and its your life.

People talk about assimilation and integration like its an easy thing. Please, why don't YOU tell me what it looks like? I've been dying to know! I'm not Hispanic, but I have been told countless of times to "f*ck off back to your country" despite the fact that I was born here, speak almost impeccable English, and am NOT on welfare nor commit crimes.

Whatever though. I'll just keep living my life. It makes no difference one way or the other. At the end of the day, it's just words and we have to survive one way or another.
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