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Old 03-03-2012, 10:15 PM
 
5,062 posts, read 5,917,275 times
Reputation: 3231
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post

Not really. Chicago has wealthy parts in the city and the suburbs. You wont find the same level of wealth nor will you find the same amount of it in other midwest metros. Chicago's gold coast and north shore, for example.
Compare the number of billionaires(in raw numbers and per capita) living in Chicago to the number of billionaires living in Columbus.



I'm not sure what intellectual value this statement has. Chicago has the second largest financial center in the United States dude. That's like saying "If you dropped Hollywood and the port of long beach in San Diego, San Diego would become just like LA" or "if you put silicon valley in the seattle area it would be just like the bay". Yea, no ****.



And why is that? Oh yea, because there is a huge concentration of wealth there. That's why other midwest cities lack large sky scrappers both corporate and residential. And really, that's not the only thing that sets it apart. Chicago on a whole is way more urbane, with way more amenities than other midwest cities.



Again, I am failing to see the intellectual value in this statement and it strikes me as fairly facetious. It's not any different than the LA beach lifestyle, which very few people enjoy. If you can't tell the difference between the lifestyles of some one living in Detroit, Kansas City or Indianapolis vs Chicago, you obviously have issues.


This statement does not even make sense. Blue collar values run deeper? Relative to where? Certainly not as much as other cities in the midwest. And certainly not any more than LA. You are aware that LA is like 50% latino, most of which are working class right? You are aware that LA is the manufacturing capitol of the United States right? Do you think less affluent immigrants and people in manufacturing are white collar?



That's a highly subjective opinion not based on any sort of factual reality. People in Manhattan love sports. People in DC love sports. People in Boston love sports. People in Denver like sports. Sports obsession does not really have anything to do with social class or work.


So what? You don't think LA has rabid baseball fans? You are aware that the Dodgers have led the national league in attendance almost every year since they have been in LA ? You are aware of the Dodgers Fans who got arrested for nearly killing a Giants Fan last year right?

You are aware that half the people who go to Oakland Raiders games are people from LA who drive 6-8 hours-one way, right?

You're still a rookie. You have not even been in California for six months dude. Do yourself and all of us here a favor: Go the library, get a few books on California history and read them. Because you have a real lack of context and understanding of the state, it's history, and it's economy.
I actually have spent a lot time reading about California history and its economy.

I would not be suprised that half the people who go to Oakland Raiders games are people from LA. Thats probably because LA has no NFL team, those who really love NFL, probably go with the raiders. And with 3 X the pop in greater LA than in the SF-Oakland I wouldn't be that suprised.
Same thing with the Dodgers, I just figured that because of the sheer number of people.

However, they seem scattered, with no neighborhood being one that revolves around Sports in anyway. In Chicagos gentrified neighborhoods, people often cite proximity to venues a major attraction as to the reason why they live there.

In Chicago, Lakeview is probably one of the biggest nightlife centered, young adult oriented neighborhood in the city, and there is no question that Wrigley is the center of it. People pay rediculous money to live across from Wrigley. Look at all the rooftop bleachers. That seems obsession.

In the South Loop, people have told me that being that close to Soldier Field is a huge deal. They can walk there easily for a game. And in the near west side, proximity to United Center is a huge deal.

In the LA area, nightlife and culture is centered around entertainment industry-oriented neighborhoods (Hollywood, WeHo, NoHo), Beach oriented neighborhoods (Santa Monica, Hermosa, Venice), or in other cases college towns/historic towns (Pasadena).

I wouldn't quite say "blue collared" roots run deep in Chicago, its more of possibly reverse-snobbery. Young people on the north side, take with some pride that they go to a dive bar. You have the hipster dive bars in Wicker Park-Logan Square, etc. (although not really dive bars). reverse snobbery combined with a bit of an attachment to white-ethnic roots.

And that applies more to traditionally ethnic backgrounds. There is no question that blue-collared roots run deep in Polish-Catholic and Irish Catholic in Chicago. Not so much with Jewish or "WASP" backgrounds. Since Catholics really were working class not long ago.

I was really comparing "blue collared roots" more to the native born white population. Not that theres anything wrong with that! In fact my Polish American family background has provided with the values necessary to live within my means.

You just have malls retrofitted into every revitalized hot spot here in LA. As well as in Orange County. Not that is necessarily better. But I was referring more to reverse snobbery.

I know Chicago is different from other midwestern cities. But that corridor along the lakefront looks so small on a map. And I've been to Detroit several times. The Detroit and Chicago suburbs look identical on every level. And the south and west sides of Chicago look like Detroit. 50 years ago, the similarities were VERY strong. the Gross Pointes and Bloomfield suburbs of Detroit are the equivalent of Chicagos north shore SUBURBS. However with the exception of a couple historic mansion neighborhoods in Detroit there really are no equivalents to the Gold Coast (but google Palmer Woods).
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:34 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,579 posts, read 4,771,257 times
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Quote:
However, they seem scattered, with no neighborhood being one that revolves around Sports in anyway. In Chicago's gentrified neighborhoods, people often cite proximity to venues a major attraction as to the reason why they live there.
Yea imagine that, people wanting to live near major venues, kind of like how they like to in SF. Now you are starting to get the difference between a car centric city, and a walkable one.

Quote:
In Chicago, Lakeview is probably one of the biggest nightlife centered, young adult oriented neighborhood in the city, and there is no question that Wrigley is the center of it.
Lakeview was not always trendy, only in the last 15-20 years. That really is a result of gentrification of the northside as a whole, nothing to do with the cubs. That's quite possibly the silliest thing I have read in a while. And wrigley is popular because it is an integral part of the local neighborhood and always has been. In LA they paved over a Mexican neighborhood to build the chavez ravine and its parking lots. So yea there's not much neighborhood vibrancy to speak of. If you are trying to assert that Chicago's nightlife revolves around Wrigley Field you are pretty far off.


Quote:
People pay rediculous money to live across from Wrigley. Look at all the rooftop bleachers. That seems obsession.
The reason there are bleachers across from Wrigley is due to the fact that the stadium is almost 100 years old. It does not have the capacity of a modern stadium. Who cares if people pay a lot of money to live near wrigley, people pay a lot of money to live in rat hole stucco studio boxes in LA so they can be "near" celebrities.

Quote:
In the South Loop, people have told me that being that close to Soldier Field is a huge deal. They can walk there easily for a game. And in the near west side, proximity to United Center is a huge deal.
I'm sure having a pro sports team in your back yard is a huge deal for anyone. It has a dynamic impact on the local neighborhood.

Quote:
In the LA area, nightlife and culture is centered around entertainment industry-oriented neighborhoods (Hollywood, WeHo, NoHo), Beach oriented neighborhoods (Santa Monica, Hermosa, Venice), or in other cases college towns/historic towns (Pasadena).
Tell me something I don't know.
Quote:

I wouldn't quite say "blue collared" roots run deep in Chicago, its more of possibly reverse-snobbery. Young people on the north side, take with some pride that they go to a dive bar. You have the hipster dive bars in Wicker Park-Logan Square, etc. (although not really dive bars).
All of my friends and family who live in Chicago who are young and live on the north side hate dive bars. Perhaps you just hang out with lower budget people. And really, are the hipsters in Wicker park that much different than the Hiptsers in LA's silver lake? You really think ethnic whites who go to a tavern after a hard days work are any different than ethnic latinos who go to a watering hole after a hard days work?

Quote:
reverse snobbery combined with a bit of an attachment to white-ethnic roots.
Attachment to ethnic roots? Dude you live in LA. Wait until you experience your first cinco de mayo. Never mind the obvious self exclusion of Persians, various asians, russians, who tend to keep to their own in LA.

Quote:
And that applies more to traditionally ethnic backgrounds. There is no question that blue-collared roots run deep in Polish-Catholic and Irish Catholic in Chicago. Not so much with Jewish or "WASP" backgrounds. Since Catholics really were working class not long ago.
You seem to have a very bizarre interpretation of history. Jews very much were in the working class up until baby boomer era, as were the bulk of the 'wasp' population. La's native white population is not very different from Chicago in that they are all a generation or two, maybe a WW2 GI Bill away from their working class roots. I'm not sure where you came up with this fantasy that LA is some old money place with no working class culture.

Quote:
And I've been to Detroit several times. The Detroit and Chicago suburbs look identical on every level. And the south and west sides of Chicago look like Detroit.
As have I. Of course the suburbs look identical in terms of architecture. The suburbs of San Diego seem to have similar architecture as in suburbs in LA. Places in the same region tend to have similar types of architecture, primarily due to climate.

Quote:
50 years ago, the similarities were VERY strong.
This is not true at all. Maybe during world war two but not by the 1960's. Chicago by that time was larger, with a more dynamic economy. Chicago was still able to hold on to a fair amount of its professional class. Detroit by contrast was starting to white flight, culminating with a race riot which caused pretty much the entire white population to flee. And of course they were a one industry town, a one trick pony.

Quote:
the Gross Pointes and Bloomfield suburbs of Detroit are the equivalent of Chicago's north shore SUBURBS
I know that, I've been there. And how many Gross Points and bloomfield burbs are there? What does that total population equal? Then compare that to the dozen or so large north shore burbs. Really no comparison, Chicago's north shore is more affluent and way larger in numbers. And your not even factoring western suburbs like hinsdale,the barringtons, and such..
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:26 AM
 
5,062 posts, read 5,917,275 times
Reputation: 3231
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
Yea imagine that, people wanting to live near major venues, kind of like how they like to in SF. Now you are starting to get the difference between a car centric city, and a walkable one.


Lakeview was not always trendy, only in the last 15-20 years. That really is a result of gentrification of the northside as a whole, nothing to do with the cubs. That's quite possibly the silliest thing I have read in a while. And wrigley is popular because it is an integral part of the local neighborhood and always has been. In LA they paved over a Mexican neighborhood to build the chavez ravine and its parking lots. So yea there's not much neighborhood vibrancy to speak of. If you are trying to assert that Chicago's nightlife revolves around Wrigley Field you are pretty far off.



The reason there are bleachers across from Wrigley is due to the fact that the stadium is almost 100 years old. It does not have the capacity of a modern stadium. Who cares if people pay a lot of money to live near wrigley, people pay a lot of money to live in rat hole stucco studio boxes in LA so they can be "near" celebrities.


I'm sure having a pro sports team in your back yard is a huge deal for anyone. It has a dynamic impact on the local neighborhood.



All of my friends and family who live in Chicago who are young and live on the north side hate dive bars. Perhaps you just hang out with lower budget people. And really, are the hipsters in Wicker park that much different than the Hiptsers in LA's silver lake? You really think ethnic whites who go to a tavern after a hard days work are any different than ethnic latinos who go to a watering hole after a hard days work?


Attachment to ethnic roots? Dude you live in LA. Wait until you experience your first cinco de mayo. Never mind the obvious self exclusion of Persians, various asians, russians, who tend to keep to their own in LA.


You seem to have a very bizarre interpretation of history. Jews very much were in the working class up until baby boomer era, as were the bulk of the 'wasp' population. La's native white population is not very different from Chicago in that they are all a generation or two, maybe a WW2 GI Bill away from their working class roots. I'm not sure where you came up with this fantasy that LA is some old money place with no working class culture.




I know that, I've been there. And how many Gross Points and bloomfield burbs are there? What does that total population equal? Then compare that to the dozen or so large north shore burbs. Really no comparison, Chicago's north shore is more affluent and way larger in numbers. And your not even factoring western suburbs like hinsdale,the barringtons, and such..
I'm just not that into sports. And in the Chicago area I always felt a bit of social pressure when it comes to sports to fit in with whatever social group I was in. Obviously theres way more in Chicago and something for everyone, But I just don't see how you can say sports aren't part of the social fabric on every level in Chicago than in LA. And you even pointed that out, that the appeal of the most desirable neighborhoods in LA simply revolve around different things. Thats all.

Yes, I absolutely know about the hispters in Silver Lake. Thing is, there are many more different kinds of crowds in different "fun" neighborhoods throughout LA. In Chicago, Wicker Park is considered one of the top "fun" neighborhoods. In LA, SilverLake is just one of many.

LA may have paved over a lot, but theres still lots of amazing history. I love El Pueblo/Olvera street. Like stepping back in time. Thats vibrant to me. Like a small Mexican village.

And while I don't really care about celebrities per se, I find the borderline delusional dreams about people waiting tables to catch their big dream is something I find a little inspirational. I give credit to that. You can't dent that Chicago at its core is a more no-nonsense kind of city. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The financial sector just doesn't attract that.

What I'm talking about ethnic roots, I am talking about 3rd generation Chicagoans going to the south side Irish day parade. I'm not saying that there aren't blue collared roots in LA. Obviously they are. But you don't have the exclusionary feel of say the South Side Irish parade. I wasn't really referring to current immigrants.

California has a history of attracting dreamers. Thats not always a good thing, but attracting people moving west from the days of the Gold Rush to the movies to high tech/silicon valley. Of course you had the desparate Okies too. So not all of it was big dreams, you had a mix.

Chicago suburbs are just more extensive. Oakland County, MI is over a million people and still among the wealthiest counties. I'm not going to split hairs over the differences between the Chicago suburbs and the Detroit suburbs. I think its fair to say that the major difference between the two metro areas lie within the differences in the urban core.

One more thing to add, like I said, I know that LA has major industry and working class roots too. But I think they have been more priced out and forced to find suitable housing in the Inland Empire counties. Not that thats necessarily a positive thing. Then you have transplants from across the country who want to experience LA, and immigrants who come for opportunitity who live in the tiny apartments. There really is not equivalent of Bridgeport in LA, where you have white ethnics that are famous for being in the same neighborhood for generations.

Last edited by Tex?Il?; 03-05-2012 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:38 AM
 
62 posts, read 66,967 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
South Side Irish parade

I have no idea what this thread is about and don't feel like reading back 3 pages of arguments, but I will add an R.I.P. for the South Side Irish Parade. What a blast that was before they cancelled it.

Chicago really did know how to throw a good parade and street party, open containers and all. My favorite city in the country (for many more substantive reasons than booze). Until I moved to LA a year ago, that is.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:09 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,816 posts, read 6,909,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWiggum View Post

Chicago really did know how to throw a good parade and street party, open containers and all. My favorite city in the country (for many more substantive reasons than booze). Until I moved to LA a year ago, that is.
"My favorite city is where I live."

Or, at least it should be.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:00 AM
 
11 posts, read 13,978 times
Reputation: 11
Ohio is a good place for family as it is slightly slow paced. You wont find the beaches, mountains, cosmopolitan atmosphere and the whole Hollywood thing going on. If you have soaked enough of it, then you could move for a change and experience something different in life. If Ohio is the kind of life you are looking forward to, the go ahead! Good luck!
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:17 PM
 
11 posts, read 18,447 times
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Id stay in cali i live in ohio an i want to get out west as fast as i can.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:58 AM
 
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Ohio is a nice place, in some ways as has been mentioned here. The winters are awful, IMHO. As for restaurants, we were in NW Ohio and found a couple of places that would hold their own against any urban venue in every respect. Very impressive. A short but easy drive to the Toledo area provided plenty of shopping at a mall.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:04 AM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,816 posts, read 6,909,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katnip kid View Post
Ohio is a nice place, in some ways as has been mentioned here. The winters are awful, IMHO. As for restaurants, we were in NW Ohio and found a couple of places that would hold their own against any urban venue in every respect. Very impressive. A short but easy drive to the Toledo area provided plenty of shopping at a mall.
A few things outlined here suggest it ain't so impressive.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:55 AM
 
Location: In bed with Madonna
474 posts, read 142,932 times
Reputation: 408
Hell no !! After living in LA, how can anyone move to the Mid West ?? Never ever.
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