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Old 02-29-2012, 12:37 AM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,043,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odannyboi View Post
I keep telling people... if you don't live in Chicago, there is not point living in the midwest. WI sucks, IA is ok if you are a college student, MI sucks, IN sucks, Missoura sucks, Ohio sucks and much of Illinois sucks.

LA is nice but Chicago overall is better in many catagories. Its only downfall (and the reason I am out here) is the weather. Take away the weather and LA wouldn't even be considered as a dream place of living. Although I only lived in LA for 2 weeks (long story), I liked what I experienced but it just doesn't feel like a real city. Its better than SD though, thats for sure.

And there aren't that many conservatives there... WI are filled with crazy libs, as is Minnesota and Illinois (along with the low skilled labor populaton of MI).
I personally disagree with you completely.

Honestly, I've been in LA for two months now, so now I got a bit of cred, along with all my research I did as to my relocation . . .

weather is only one of the things on a long list of things that makes LA more amazing to me then Chicago.

To me, the skyline and lakefront are the only things that beats LA. And those areas can be experienced easily as a tourist, and the rest of the city and suburbs have little to do with downtown/lakefront/skyline. And how long can you stare at a beautiful skyline from the lakefront (because honestly when you stare at it from the west side, its post industrial rustbelt, and looks like a "rustbelt blade runner" Hell! There is even a WORKING STEEL MILL between Lincoln Park and Bucktown north of Goose Island!! Did you know that. The two trendiest neighborhoods in the city have a steel mill. You can not tell me that Chicago doesn't have more in common with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc.

LA is definitely more culturally diverse and international. Way more Asians of every ethnic group (except maybe Hindu Indian, Chicago might have greater presence there), with Asian restaurants everywhere, huge middle eastern population with the biggest Armenian and Iranian population, bigger Jewish population. More diverse hispanic population. Chicago obviously has a way larger Mexican population than elsewhere Chicago is definitely diverse, but it is largely a "white-Catholic" and Black city. And LA has way more class diversity in that it has areas like Baldwin Hills. You gotta go FAR south suburbs to find well off AA pops. Don't get me wrong I'm Polish American and Catholic, but it doesn't feel exotic. Poles (and Lithuanian, Ukrainian, etc.) basically have the same sausage-potato-cabbage based cuisine common to Irish, German, which are "pan-Midwestern"

LA may not have anything like Chicagos spectacular museum campus. But LA has WAY more museums just scattered: Getty Center, LACMA and Page/Tar Pits on Wilshire, Exposition Park, Pasadena has two major art museums, etc. it goes on.

In greater LA you really can ski and surf in the same day. San Gabriel mountains. The Pacific Ocean. With waves, salt smell, dolphins, etc. In Chicago 50 miles out, the outdoor pursuits involve cow tipping, rather than mountain biking, skiing, rock climbing.

LA despite having economic troubles, because of the disfunctional state government with its anti-business climate, LA is more diversified. I don't care what you think of it, Chicago has basically zero entertainment/media. Chicago has a bigger financial no doubt, but LAs port/export-import industry is much bigger.

Chicagos activity and excitement, nightlife is largely concentrated downtown. Chicago has a world class downtown, LA however is a world class metro area. You can never run out of things to do in greater LA. If you are young and single, your options are the Wrigley, sports crowd, around Wrigleyville/Lakeview, your hipster Bohemian, live music-dive bar crowd of Wicker Park and adjacent areas, and the WASPY moneyed areas of Lincoln Park.

Food is huge in Chicago. People eat and drink. Portions are restuarants are huge in Chicago, and yes it has an effect on waistline, and the presence of unattached slim young adult women.

Skycrapers are the "middle finger" of architecture, a city skyline in no way reflects how the people live . Most of the rest of the city is composed of old workers cottage two-flats and then bungalows, again with the exception of a few pockets of real diversity on the north side, are divided between low income black neighborhoods with their characteristic "ghetto prairies" where houses and factories, old-school, "superfan" white catholics on the far NW/SW corners of the city, big ten graduates on the north/northwest side, and recently immigrated Mexicans from the Durango, Mex. countryside.

And on the flipside, there are tons of cool areas in the rest of the midwest, College towns in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin are world class, Michigan is making a comeback. You can live like a king in one of Detroits or Metro Detroits wealthy areas in a beautiful historic mansion, while having access to some great arts and entertainment.

Clevelands white ethnic neighborhoods and historic suburbs are just like Chicagos, and Cincinnati has the architecture and history of an east coast city, that feels a little like Boston.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:42 AM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,043,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
Chicago is not any more or less blue collar than LA, that's why median family incomes are fairly similar. Chicago has quite a few posh areas in the city and suburbs. There is a very large concentration of wealth there. That's what makes it stand out from other midwest cities.
All other midwest metro areas have concentration of wealth, to but largely in the suburbs. Cleveland, St. Louis, and Detroit all have suburbs just as wealthy as Chicagos. Oakland County, MI is at the same level as DuPage and Lake Counties.

If you dropped New Yorks Wall Street into downtown Detroit, it become just like Chicago.

The only thing that Chicago has that sets apart is the downtown/skyline/lakefront. And that is NOT representative of how most in the metro area, or even in the city live.

Blue collared values however, do run deeper in Chicago, even if people don't work blue collared jobs. Sports obsession which runs stronger in Chicago is an outgrowth of that. One of the first questions asked in Chicago: "are you are a Cubs fan or Sox fan?"
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:44 AM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,043,625 times
Reputation: 4813
Quote:
Originally Posted by odannyboi View Post
I keep telling people... if you don't live in Chicago, there is not point living in the midwest. WI sucks, IA is ok if you are a college student, MI sucks, IN sucks, Missoura sucks, Ohio sucks and much of Illinois sucks.

LA is nice but Chicago overall is better in many catagories. Its only downfall (and the reason I am out here) is the weather. Take away the weather and LA wouldn't even be considered as a dream place of living. Although I only lived in LA for 2 weeks (long story), I liked what I experienced but it just doesn't feel like a real city. Its better than SD though, thats for sure.

And there aren't that many conservatives there... WI are filled with crazy libs, as is Minnesota and Illinois (along with the low skilled labor populaton of MI).
I will also add, that Chicago has a low cost of living. In addition to family being there, is what might make me move back there at some point. But it would only be, because I would want to settle down in a quiet town on the outskirts of Chicagoland where I could afford a house with a decent yard.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:00 AM
 
10 posts, read 22,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticEars View Post
California is extremely diverse geographically and not so much desert, as you claim. As for desert, well, one man's junk is another man's treasure.
California is very diverse (I grew up in Redding, went to school in Humboldt), but the parts most accesible to the largest populations are not the beautiful parts IMO. The prettiest parts don't have many of those people close by. I call Sacramento on straight down to be desert. Maybe that isn't the correct term for "central valley", but after moving to Indiana, finding out grass actually grows green without sprinklers and then visiting CA, it looks like desert to me. I actually enjoy some types of desert, and our family went to Gerlach Nevada plenty of times and I learned to drive on Black Rock Desert (before Burning Man.) But Stockton/Fresno/Lancaster/Riverside is the worst kind of flat just like much of Kansas. Dusty, dry and ugly. I am also not partial to scrub oak.

Quote:
Coastal California weather is some of the most ideal on the planet. IMO.
Ideal for people who don't like the variety of seasons and want a chilly overcast morning every single day (assuming you mean Monterey up.) I feel like a Californian's idea of ideal weather takes a deserted island approach, you can only take one type of weather to enjoy forever and ever, which would it be?

Quote:
I find Kentuckians (sans Louisville and Northern KY), Buckeyes (rural) and West Virginians to be friendlier (even though KY and WV aren't really Midwestern).
I can see that. Do you think Illinois/Ohio is friendlier than Indiana? My problem is no matter how friendly they get further south I simply can't stand a Southern accent and broken speech in a long duration so they eventually rub me the wrong way without knowing it.

Quote:
Now, would I leave California to live in the Midwest? I would live in Chicago.
I go there often and drive through on main roads and am always happy to get out, just like LA. Too friggin big for me to want to deal with. I do like some of those outer west Chicago places but I don't get why living there would be so grand with Downtown Chicago so far away anyway. I guess that drew me close to Indy, it is a big city but feels small and is easily drivable unlike Pittsburgh/Atlanta/Birmingham etc.

Quote:
I don't mind rural areas and smaller states as I grew up in such, but the only way I could live in parts of MN, WI, MI, IA, and SD would be if I were willing to be "hearty."
Those states you mention have horrible winters and are quite isolated, I couldn't stand them much either as a home. If I had a little bit of spending money though I'd want a summer house in MI, maybe Midland or on the West Side.

Quote:
And on the flipside, there are tons of cool areas in the rest of the midwest, College towns in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin are world class, Michigan is making a comeback.
Agreed, but why leave off Indiana? I'd take Bloomington as a cool college town before what those states could offer. Big lake, rolling forested hills, arts scene, live music scene, IU sports and a regular on Forbes's top 20 best small places for career.

Last edited by findy; 02-29-2012 at 02:31 AM..
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:52 AM
 
11,289 posts, read 26,075,423 times
Reputation: 11353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
I personally disagree with you completely.

Honestly, I've been in LA for two months now, so now I got a bit of cred, along with all my research I did as to my relocation . . .

weather is only one of the things on a long list of things that makes LA more amazing to me then Chicago.

To me, the skyline and lakefront are the only things that beats LA. And those areas can be experienced easily as a tourist, and the rest of the city and suburbs have little to do with downtown/lakefront/skyline. And how long can you stare at a beautiful skyline from the lakefront (because honestly when you stare at it from the west side, its post industrial rustbelt, and looks like a "rustbelt blade runner" Hell! There is even a WORKING STEEL MILL between Lincoln Park and Bucktown north of Goose Island!! Did you know that. The two trendiest neighborhoods in the city have a steel mill. You can not tell me that Chicago doesn't have more in common with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc.

LA is definitely more culturally diverse and international. Way more Asians of every ethnic group (except maybe Hindu Indian, Chicago might have greater presence there), with Asian restaurants everywhere, huge middle eastern population with the biggest Armenian and Iranian population, bigger Jewish population. More diverse hispanic population. Chicago obviously has a way larger Mexican population than elsewhere Chicago is definitely diverse, but it is largely a "white-Catholic" and Black city. And LA has way more class diversity in that it has areas like Baldwin Hills. You gotta go FAR south suburbs to find well off AA pops. Don't get me wrong I'm Polish American and Catholic, but it doesn't feel exotic. Poles (and Lithuanian, Ukrainian, etc.) basically have the same sausage-potato-cabbage based cuisine common to Irish, German, which are "pan-Midwestern"

LA may not have anything like Chicagos spectacular museum campus. But LA has WAY more museums just scattered: Getty Center, LACMA and Page/Tar Pits on Wilshire, Exposition Park, Pasadena has two major art museums, etc. it goes on.

In greater LA you really can ski and surf in the same day. San Gabriel mountains. The Pacific Ocean. With waves, salt smell, dolphins, etc. In Chicago 50 miles out, the outdoor pursuits involve cow tipping, rather than mountain biking, skiing, rock climbing.

LA despite having economic troubles, because of the disfunctional state government with its anti-business climate, LA is more diversified. I don't care what you think of it, Chicago has basically zero entertainment/media. Chicago has a bigger financial no doubt, but LAs port/export-import industry is much bigger.

Chicagos activity and excitement, nightlife is largely concentrated downtown. Chicago has a world class downtown, LA however is a world class metro area. You can never run out of things to do in greater LA. If you are young and single, your options are the Wrigley, sports crowd, around Wrigleyville/Lakeview, your hipster Bohemian, live music-dive bar crowd of Wicker Park and adjacent areas, and the WASPY moneyed areas of Lincoln Park.

Food is huge in Chicago. People eat and drink. Portions are restuarants are huge in Chicago, and yes it has an effect on waistline, and the presence of unattached slim young adult women.

Skycrapers are the "middle finger" of architecture, a city skyline in no way reflects how the people live . Most of the rest of the city is composed of old workers cottage two-flats and then bungalows, again with the exception of a few pockets of real diversity on the north side, are divided between low income black neighborhoods with their characteristic "ghetto prairies" where houses and factories, old-school, "superfan" white catholics on the far NW/SW corners of the city, big ten graduates on the north/northwest side, and recently immigrated Mexicans from the Durango, Mex. countryside.

And on the flipside, there are tons of cool areas in the rest of the midwest, College towns in Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin are world class, Michigan is making a comeback. You can live like a king in one of Detroits or Metro Detroits wealthy areas in a beautiful historic mansion, while having access to some great arts and entertainment.

Clevelands white ethnic neighborhoods and historic suburbs are just like Chicagos, and Cincinnati has the architecture and history of an east coast city, that feels a little like Boston.
You've been in LA for two months now and you're STILL ragging on Chicago in every post!? Even in the LA forum. Let go - give it up! Go enjoy LA, life's too short to constantly dwell on your personal opinions of Chicago's shortcomings.


Side note - I'm confused on the steel plant?? I've seen you write that in lots of posts. The A Finkl & Sons place on Cortland? It's a small factory along the river that turns out "botique" steel castings and dies. They're actually better known for parties, their big green tie ball every year and let people wandering down the streets come in to see their processes. It's a small time operation with 300 employees, responsible for around 0.1% of the steel produced in the USA. From what you said I was looking for some huge steel mill right in Lincoln Park like a monster of industry. I've driven by this place 100 times. It's totally small change. You tend to exxagerate things a bit to get your point across. I mean LA is fine and all, but to constantly push Chicago down and say the south loop through Lakeview and the posh/downtown areas are a small sliver of the city....well yeah, it is a sliver of the metro area. There are still 1,000,000 people living there though, over 650,000 jobs, tons of cultural activities and 120,000 college students. It's the hub of the entire metro. It's not just some small area you can walk across in 20 minutes and the rest of the metro/city is a big dark secret.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:57 AM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,043,625 times
Reputation: 4813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
You've been in LA for two months now and you're STILL ragging on Chicago in every post!? Even in the LA forum. Let go - give it up! Go enjoy LA, life's too short to constantly dwell on your personal opinions of Chicago's shortcomings.


Side note - I'm confused on the steel plant?? I've seen you write that in lots of posts. The A Finkl & Sons place on Cortland? It's a small factory along the river that turns out "botique" steel castings and dies. They're actually better known for parties, their big green tie ball every year and let people wandering down the streets come in to see their processes. It's a small time operation with 300 employees, responsible for around 0.1% of the steel produced in the USA. From what you said I was looking for some huge steel mill right in Lincoln Park like a monster of industry. I've driven by this place 100 times. It's totally small change. You tend to exxagerate things a bit to get your point across. I mean LA is fine and all, but to constantly push Chicago down and say the south loop through Lakeview and the posh/downtown areas are a small sliver of the city....well yeah, it is a sliver of the metro area. There are still 1,000,000 people living there though, over 650,000 jobs, tons of cultural activities and 120,000 college students. It's the hub of the entire metro. It's not just some small area you can walk across in 20 minutes and the rest of the metro/city is a big dark secret.
I'm just a little confused and perplexed when people MOVE from the Chicago area to California, and STILL think the Chicago is the center of the universe and the only reason why they moved to California is for the weather. I really don't get it. Maybe I do exaggerate, but to seriously say that LA and Southern California only have weather on their side is just absolutely preposterous. Because well frankly, that is an exaggeration in itself.

And hes not the first one. There have been others. And then those same people say the rest of the midwest sucks. Well, a truly mathametical logical argument MUST go then, that any part of Chicagoland city of suburbs that resembles, and by themselves, looks, feel, has the demographic of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, etc. then therefore must be aknowledged as such.

I know Finkl and Sons is not huge, but is still a steel, a very signature industry common to all midwest urban areas, and there are no steel mills close to any of the hot spots of the west side of LA. I have nothing against steel mills.

It would be much easier if a canal was dug along say Western, Cermak, Fullerton or Armitage, and made separate state. That was no outside those boundaries can claim the "famous" side of Chicago anymore than someone from New Jersey can claim Manhattan or New York.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:04 PM
 
14,727 posts, read 33,260,309 times
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NO.

You will always be comparing things to LA and Southern California. Most people who have done it did so because of a corporate transfer, family reasons (health decline), a GOOD grad school (Michigan, Northwestern, etc.) or something similar, and had a "grin and bear it" attitude.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: South Bay
7,226 posts, read 22,110,685 times
Reputation: 3626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Skycrapers are the "middle finger" of architecture, a city skyline in no way reflects how the people live.
i love this quote! you are absolutely correct about this. outside of NYC and a handful of asian cities, there is absolutely no need for 20+ story buildings anywhere. highrise buildings are simply a way for architects/developers to say 'look what i built, my **** is bigger than yours'.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: SCW, AZ
8,234 posts, read 13,321,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira View Post
Wrong! I am looking forward to moving to the Midwest and getting permanently out of California. The only thing I will miss about California is the early start to Monday night football! I cannot understand how anyone can tolerate the extreme overcrowding of coastal California after experiecing the relaxed pace of living in the Midwest.
As much as I prefer CA, for now at least, it is far from "loving" it thoroughly and there may come a day where my values and needs shift prompting a relocation, yet again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troof View Post
LOL, because you're the expert on EVERYONE, apparently.
Yes, I am but do not tell anyone. If the truth got out, my reputation would be ruined.

On a more serious note, the point I was trying to make was, no please is perfect, not CA, not mid west because every place has its own set of issues, shortcomings, etc. so the keyword was "thoroughly" in my bold statement. So, if you tell me there is not a single thing you would dislike living in the Mid West or anything you would miss about CA, then yes, I'd -politely- call you a liar.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:03 PM
 
Location: San Leandro
4,576 posts, read 9,130,608 times
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Quote:
All other midwest metro areas have concentration of wealth, to but largely in the suburbs. Cleveland, St. Louis, and Detroit all have suburbs just as wealthy as Chicago's. Oakland County, MI is at the same level as DuPage and Lake Counties.


Not really. Chicago has wealthy parts in the city and the suburbs. You wont find the same level of wealth nor will you find the same amount of it in other midwest metros. Chicago's gold coast and north shore, for example.
Compare the number of billionaires(in raw numbers and per capita) living in Chicago to the number of billionaires living in Columbus.

Quote:
If you dropped New Yorks Wall Street into downtown Detroit, it become just like Chicago.


I'm not sure what intellectual value this statement has. Chicago has the second largest financial center in the United States dude. That's like saying "If you dropped Hollywood and the port of long beach in San Diego, San Diego would become just like LA" or "if you put silicon valley in the seattle area it would be just like the bay". Yea, no ****.

Quote:
The only thing that Chicago has that sets apart is the downtown/skyline/lakefront.


And why is that? Oh yea, because there is a huge concentration of wealth there. That's why other midwest cities lack large sky scrappers both corporate and residential. And really, that's not the only thing that sets it apart. Chicago on a whole is way more urbane, with way more amenities than other midwest cities.


Quote:
And that is NOT representative of how most in the metro area, or even in the city live.
Again, I am failing to see the intellectual value in this statement and it strikes me as fairly facetious. It's not any different than the LA beach lifestyle, which very few people enjoy. If you can't tell the difference between the lifestyles of some one living in Detroit, Kansas City or Indianapolis vs Chicago, you obviously have issues.

Quote:
Blue collared values however, do run deeper in Chicago, even if people don't work blue collared jobs.
This statement does not even make sense. Blue collar values run deeper? Relative to where? Certainly not as much as other cities in the midwest. And certainly not any more than LA. You are aware that LA is like 50% latino, most of which are working class right? You are aware that LA is the manufacturing capitol of the United States right? Do you think less affluent immigrants and people in manufacturing are white collar?

Quote:
Sports obsession which runs stronger in Chicago is an outgrowth of that.
That's a highly subjective opinion not based on any sort of factual reality. People in Manhattan love sports. People in DC love sports. People in Boston love sports. People in Denver like sports. Sports obsession does not really have anything to do with social class or work.

Quote:
One of the first questions asked in Chicago: "are you are a Cubs fan or Sox fan?"
So what? You don't think LA has rabid baseball fans? You are aware that the Dodgers have led the national league in attendance almost every year since they have been in LA ? You are aware of the Dodgers Fans who got arrested for nearly killing a Giants Fan last year right?

You are aware that half the people who go to Oakland Raiders games are people from LA who drive 6-8 hours-one way, right?

You're still a rookie. You have not even been in California for six months dude. Do yourself and all of us here a favor: Go the library, get a few books on California history and read them. Because you have a real lack of context and understanding of the state, it's history, and it's economy.
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