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Old 11-18-2008, 10:43 PM
 
4 posts, read 8,452 times
Reputation: 14

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyT View Post
Interesting. I present clear evidence of a strong Italian presence in Los Angeles that goes back further then any of the ethnic groups mentioned by subsequent posters, save those of Spanish/Mexican heritage. I showed that a "Little Italy" not only existed, but thrived for many years in the very center of where Los Angeles was founded. The businesses started by Italians not only served the needs of their community, but those of the entire city's populace. Yet all that some can draw from it is that I presented "interesting facts" and the only contributions Italians made to the growth and culture of Los Angeles was to own a few stores, wineries, and be fishermen.

People that know the nature of Los Angeles understand that the longer an ethnic group is present here, the more assimilated and dispersed they become. How many Japanese actually still live in Little Tokyo or Chinese in Chinatown? Boyle Heights was once home to a bustling Jewish community. The only sign left of their presence is the synagogue on Breed Street. The Italians simply did what other groups have also done; spread out and move on. We didn't need a Little Italy anymore. We were not forced or felt compelled to stay in our own little segment of the city forever. We elevated ourselves from our simpler roots and became politicians, bankers, lawyers, doctors, and so on. We stopped seeing ourselves as Italians, or Italian-Americans, and became just Americans. The fact that there is no longer a single neighborhood or street lined end to end with Italians flags, does not mean Italians are gone, were never here, or did nothing for Los Angeles. It's not just a fluke that the metro Los Angeles area ranks as 5th in the nation in total number of residents of Italian ancestry.

But that's fine. Go ahead and give credit to other ethnic groups that arrived long after the first Italians did. It really doesn't matter. Those of us of Italian ancestry know our history. We are proud of what those that came before us did. More importantly, we neither need nor require your recognition of our place or accomplishments when it comes to the shaping of Los Angeles.
It is not my fault that the gist of your "clear evidence" basically consists of Italians owning 19th century wineries, the Watts towers, and a few random individuals going into politics. Re-read your own post and maybe you'll see why that's all we could ascertain about Italian's alleged significance and influence in LA.

Which brings me to my next point--- most of the Italian restaurants, businesses and wineries you've mentioned existed in the 19th century up until the post-WWII era. Where are they now? What relevance or significance do they convey in LA now? Answer: they are forgotten and long gone.

It doesn't matter that some Italians "arrived before" the Chinese, Japanese, Jews or Koreans. So what? The Tongva tribe "arrived before" everyone else--- is the Tongva tribe, therefore more influential than everybody else? The Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Koreans (amongst other ethnic groups) may no longer live confined in their ethnic enclaves, but these groups STILL possess an obvious, viable presence in the city that you can see with your own eyes. They have successfully managed to retain large aspects of their culture, and their businesses, schools, museums, churches and cultural events are a testament to their influence. [This, of course, all goes without mentioning the omnipresent Mexicans, whom are, hands-down, the most influential ethnic group in Los Angeles.] You would have to be delusional to think the same about Italians in LA.

What I've gleaned from reading this thread is that the IA's on this thread have a ridiculous, over-inflated sense of self-importance in regards to LA. And nobody is more "proud of assimilating", yet somehow at the same time, adamant about differentiating themselves due to their unique ethnicity. Can't have it both ways. You are NOT a vital or significant group in LA. You have the East coast for that. Get over it!

Last edited by Albert S.; 11-18-2008 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:25 AM
 
956 posts, read 2,647,901 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert S. View Post
It is not my fault that the gist of your "clear evidence" basically consists of Italians owning 19th century wineries, the Watts towers, and a few random individuals going into politics. Re-read your own post and maybe you'll see why that's all we could ascertain about Italian's alleged significance and influence in LA.

Which brings me to my next point--- most of the Italian restaurants, businesses and wineries you've mentioned existed in the 19th century up until the post-WWII era. Where are they now? What relevance or significance do they convey in LA now? Answer: they are forgotten and long gone.

It doesn't matter that some Italians "arrived before" the Chinese, Japanese, Jews or Koreans. So what? The Tongva tribe "arrived before" everyone else--- is the Tongva tribe, therefore more influential than everybody else? The Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Koreans (amongst other ethnic groups) may no longer live confined in their ethnic enclaves, but these groups STILL possess an obvious, viable presence in the city that you can see with your own eyes. They have successfully managed to retain large aspects of their culture, and their businesses, schools, museums, churches and cultural events are a testament to their influence. [This, of course, all goes without mentioning the omnipresent Mexicans, whom are, hands-down, the most influential ethnic group in Los Angeles.] You would have to be delusional to think the same about Italians in LA.

What I've gleaned from reading this thread is that the IA's on this thread have a ridiculous, over-inflated sense of self-importance in regards to LA. And nobody is more "proud of assimilating", yet somehow at the same time, adamant about differentiating themselves due to their unique ethnicity. Can't have it both ways. You are NOT a vital or significant group in LA. You have the East coast for that. Get over it!
What's your opinion of Little Armenia or Little India?
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:13 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,659,923 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Gotta give you a rep exalt for that one, traveller! One potential problem: buffalo mozzarella is not allowed in the U.S. due to some USDA processing snafu. I'll take you to see Watts Towers, which Tony T. admirably reminded us all was the pinnacle of Italian folk art achitecture for L.A. (or even the whole United States.)
Unless you hail from Honcut, Rackerby or Wyandotte, you may not know where Bangor, Calif. is, let alone its claim to fame. The tiny Butte County town has a population of 585, not including its most famous residents--175 water buffaloes.
This unique herd is the foundation of California's only water buffalo mozzarella farm. In fact, save for a small dairy in Vermont, it's the only such business in America.

Mozzarella gone wild! California farm tames exotic animal with gourmet results

Bubalus real Mozzarella Cheese
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:59 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 6,521,467 times
Reputation: 881
I get it now--this isn't about Little Italys, it's about West v. East coast! I'm in Boston. Great little italy (north End). But who cares. It's just a bunch of restaurants and t-shirt shops. Totally unnecessary to the functioning of a great city (which Los Angeles is).
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Turn right at the stop sign
1,580 posts, read 2,553,129 times
Reputation: 3268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert S. View Post
It is not my fault that the gist of your "clear evidence" basically consists of Italians owning 19th century wineries, the Watts towers, and a few random individuals going into politics. Re-read your own post and maybe you'll see why that's all we could ascertain about Italian's alleged significance and influence in LA.

Which brings me to my next point--- most of the Italian restaurants, businesses and wineries you've mentioned existed in the 19th century up until the post-WWII era. Where are they now? What relevance or significance do they convey in LA now? Answer: they are forgotten and long gone.

It doesn't matter that some Italians "arrived before" the Chinese, Japanese, Jews or Koreans. So what? The Tongva tribe "arrived before" everyone else--- is the Tongva tribe, therefore more influential than everybody else? The Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Koreans (amongst other ethnic groups) may no longer live confined in their ethnic enclaves, but these groups STILL possess an obvious, viable presence in the city that you can see with your own eyes. They have successfully managed to retain large aspects of their culture, and their businesses, schools, museums, churches and cultural events are a testament to their influence. [This, of course, all goes without mentioning the omnipresent Mexicans, whom are, hands-down, the most influential ethnic group in Los Angeles.] You would have to be delusional to think the same about Italians in LA.

What I've gleaned from reading this thread is that the IA's on this thread have a ridiculous, over-inflated sense of self-importance in regards to LA. And nobody is more "proud of assimilating", yet somehow at the same time, adamant about differentiating themselves due to their unique ethnicity. Can't have it both ways. You are NOT a vital or significant group in LA. You have the East coast for that. Get over it!
The point of my original and subsequent posts were to explain the Italian presence in Los Angeles, that there was once a "Little Italy" here, and why there is no longer one. I also showed that Italians played a large role in the building of Los Angeles during the formative years of the city. You can disagree with and deny what I have said all you want. But since you have presented no facts to rebut those that I offered, you are simply expressing your uninformed opinion, nothing more.

The basis of your argument against what I have said really seems to come down to there being no visible, concentrated Italian presence remaining in Los Angeles today. And my response to that is, so what? No one was making the case that Italians are a force to be reckoned with or major power players in the city NOW. If that's what you took from my posts, then perhaps you are the one that needs to do some re-reading, not me. I was giving a history lesson. Sorry you couldn't figure that out.

Given that your whopping four posts on this site are nothing more then biased, anti-Italian rants, you have exposed yourself for what you are: just another City-Data troll. So run along now, go play your games elsewhere, and allow the serious members of this site to discuss topics without having to waste time with people like you.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:11 PM
 
196 posts, read 556,269 times
Reputation: 106
I live in San Pedro, and we don't technically have a "Little Italy" here, but there is a fairly large, and well established Italian-American community here, and it's not rare to have people not from here refer to some parts of San Pedro, as "Little Italy".
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,886 posts, read 5,998,113 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by LivingInExiles View Post
I live in San Pedro, and we don't technically have a "Little Italy" here, but there is a fairly large, and well established Italian-American community here, and it's not rare to have people not from here refer to some parts of San Pedro, as "Little Italy".
Yes but that Italian-American community is shrinking rapidly.
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Old 12-01-2008, 03:52 PM
 
2 posts, read 3,955 times
Reputation: 10
Its as simple as this: LA is not comprable to New York. And I'm not being a stuck-up New Yorker, because I'm from London. New York in twice the size of LA and has emany things LA doesn't. Little Italy is one of them,
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:37 PM
 
956 posts, read 2,647,901 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by timd.s. View Post
Its as simple as this: LA is not comprable to New York.
What's New York have to do with it?
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:35 PM
 
938 posts, read 3,571,452 times
Reputation: 767
Why is this thread still limping around for? The Pro-Little Italy crowd is barking up the wrong tree...

LA doesn't have a Little Italy for a reason! There are heaps of Little Italy's scattered across the Eastern Seaboard, hell even in St.Louis (because the Italians were contributing immigrant groups in those cities) for you to advocate on behalf of.
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