U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Los Angeles
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-11-2011, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Earth
16,134 posts, read 20,952,867 times
Reputation: 6492

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankVerse View Post
Yes, the "Voice of Reason Network" which he used to have under his status update looks like a white separtist organization and lots of jew bashing too.
Of the Russian nationalist variety. Russian nationalism has always been antisemitic given that it is highly interwoven with the Orthodox Church and opposition to other religions. The "Third Rome" concept. (I took his advice and actually listened to the Voice of Reason Network and base my comments upon actually having heard it.) Russian nationalism also tends to be anti-Catholic due to the perception that the Catholics sold out Byzantium to Islam. (Fortunately, it has little appeal amongst L.A.'s Russian community. In California, it is most common in Sacramento.)

Quote:
The tiny bit of irony is I believe the O.P. is of Italian heritage (judging from his posts). We all know how the southern Europeans were greeted when they arrived here. Not exactly viewed as equals by the Anglo-Americans. Probably viewed as even inferior to the Irish.
Definitely inferior to the Irish. In fact, the coming of Southern European immigrants helped boost the stature of Irish Americans in US society - along with the efforts that the Irish themselves made which resulted in them running most of America's large cities by the beginning of the 20th century including San Francisco. Even in the very WASP dominated Los Angeles of the early 20th century, the WASP elite gave the courts and the DA's office to Irish-American and German-American Catholics because it could no longer ignore their power in US society as a whole. (Curiously, they didn't turn law enforcement over to the Irish as was the case in most other non-southern US cities, SF included.) There was a reason why the Italians were on the Eastside with the Eastern Euros, Mexicans, Jews, and Japanese - because all those groups were held in low regard by the WASP elite. Southern Italians were generally considered the lowest or one of the lowest white groups in the early 20th century US, with only certain Eastern Euro nationalities being equal or lower. (Northern Italians were viewed much higher, but I believe Library Man's ancestors were Southern or Sicilian not Northern.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-11-2011, 05:15 PM
 
121 posts, read 229,706 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post

Definitely inferior to the Irish. In fact, the coming of Southern European immigrants helped boost the stature of Irish Americans in US society - along with the efforts that the Irish themselves made which resulted in them running most of America's large cities by the beginning of the 20th century including San Francisco.

Southern Italians were generally considered the lowest or one of the lowest white groups in the early 20th century US, with only certain Eastern Euro nationalities being equal or lower. (Northern Italians were viewed much higher, but I believe Library Man's ancestors were Southern or Sicilian not Northern.)
Good summary Majoun. No doubt.

The Italian immigrants/Italian-Americans circa 1900 were viewed with DEEP suspicion as being radicals with an allegiance only to the pope and socialism.

And for the WASP crowd in the United States, there was even a connection between Italians and Jews. Italians, as descendents of Romans, were viewed as culpable in crucifying Jesus.

Let's not forget the trial of Sacco & Vanzetti in the 1920's.

SOME Italians were put in interment camps in WWII (if they were suspected as having loyalty to Italy). Joe Dimaggio's father (a Sicilian born fisherman who lived in San Francisco) was investigated and had his boat confiscated and was prohibited from going to the wharves to make a living. All this while his son was an All-Star in the big leagues. Apparently, the elder Dimaggio never spoke English very well and despite living in the US for 40 yrs by the time of WWII was still not a U.S. citizen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Earth
16,134 posts, read 20,952,867 times
Reputation: 6492
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankVerse View Post
Good summary Majoun. No doubt.

The Italian immigrants/Italian-Americans circa 1900 were viewed with DEEP suspicion as being radicals with an allegiance only to the pope and socialism.
Very true.
By that time the Irish and Germans were well established enough in the US that they looked down upon the Italians, particularly the southerners who came after 1880, just like the WASPs did.

Quote:
And for the WASP crowd in the United States, there was even a connection between Italians and Jews. Italians, as descendents of Romans, were viewed as culpable in crucifying Jesus.
That's news to me, but I'm not surprised. Anti-immigrant paranoia directed against "the refuse of Italy and Austria-Hungary" (actual language used by the New York Times) was responsible for the passage of the first gun control law in the US, New York's Sullivan Act, in 1912. (Notice the name of the legislator who wrote it ; more proof of how the Irish were not only no longer hated but established enough that they were paranoid about new immigrants, too.) The bigots of that time like Madison Grant and Lothrop Stoddard were paranoid about Italians.

Quote:
Let's not forget the trial of Sacco & Vanzetti in the 1920's.

SOME Italians were put in interment camps in WWII (if they were suspected as having loyalty to Italy). Joe Dimaggio's father (a Sicilian born fisherman who lived in San Francisco) was investigated and had his boat confiscated and was prohibited from going to the wharves to make a living. All this while his son was an All-Star in the big leagues. Apparently, the elder Dimaggio never spoke English very well and despite living in the US for 40 yrs by the time of WWII was still not a U.S. citizen.
A forgotten chapter of WW2. Yes, some Italian nationals were interned during the war (although Italian-Americans were not). However, WW2 service is what made Italian-Americans (and those of Central/Eastern Euro origin) full members of the "white club", despite many Americans with origins in Italy (and Eastern Euro countries) becoming very rich and successful before the war. Full members of the "white club" to the extent that they could even live in 1950s Glendale (although close to the outer limits of acceptability in a WASP dominated town, there wasn't the hostility directed against Italians in Glendale of that era that there was against Jews in that era ; Glendale in the '50s/'60s was openly racist and antisemitic). Probably 1950s OC as well (and not just in Santa Ana). That shows you how things can change in a short time. 100 years ago in the US nobody would have predicted that Italian-Americans would not only be accepted but high enough on the US ethnic hierarchy that being Italian would be seen as prestigious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 12,574,660 times
Reputation: 6275
Chef Boyardee helped, too. Even more than Spaghettios.


Left the cemetary behind awhile ago in this thread, huh?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Southern California native, last 20 yrs in Milwaukee Wisc.
847 posts, read 3,170,977 times
Reputation: 1256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visit a Library View Post
I drove my mother this day to Holy Cross cemetery to put flowers on several grave plots. The speed limit at the cemetery is 20 mph I believe, which is reasonable considering...well...it's a place of rest for the deceased.

So there I am, driving to the grave plots and observing the speed limit, when a scummy looking fellow with one of those long mustaches that's typically found on felons begins riding my bumper. Then, after I reach my turn-off to another road, I see him in my rear view mirror turning to look at me, showing me his tough-guy gangbanger "I'll mess you up, hombre" look. Huh? Seriously? In a cemetery?

Then, after we've stopped and my mother and me are walking to the graves, I hear a thumping sound -- could it be somebody has been buried alive and is trying to alert us to the fact by banging on their coffin? No -- as the thumping got louder, I realized to my utter disgust that it was the booming of the stereo of some gangbanger types cruising by us in a Cadillac Escalade with tinted windows and custom rims. Seriously...we now boom music at cemeteries?

Then, on the way out, I got tailgated again, this time by a couple of girls who look like they probably date gang members and/or have family members who are gang members.

The scum in this city simply oozes into every last vestige of what was once a decent place to live.

I hear ya, bro. Ain't all this highly-touted diversity just great?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 12,574,660 times
Reputation: 6275
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkool View Post
I hear ya, bro. Ain't all this highly-touted diversity just great?
Check a few posts back and review some reality behind OP's intentions. Mel Gibson quality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2011, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Earth
16,134 posts, read 20,952,867 times
Reputation: 6492
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Chef Boyardee helped, too. Even more than Spaghettios.
Boiardi was certainly an example of Italian-American business success in legit business (not counting organized crime) during the early 20th century. His products helped Americans afford to eat during the 1930s Depression.
I'd think that the quality of Chef Boyardee products was higher when he owned the company than it is today.

Another Italian-American businessman who played a major role in California's history (unlike Boiardi who was from Cleveland): Amadeo Giannini, whose Bank of Italy was the only bank making loans after the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, and was the only bank that extended credit to the ragtag group of independent film producers, most of whom were immigrants or children of immigrants themselves, who'd established themselves in Los Angeles and wound up becoming the founders of the Hollywood film industry. Giannini's bank later became Bank of America. (Unfortunately, the good B of A of old that Giannini founded was later bought up by NationsBank of North Carolina, who adapted its name, thus came to exist the evil B of A of today which is really NationsBank.)

A pretty large number of actors, singers, and vaudeville entertainers also helped.

Quote:
Left the cemetary behind awhile ago in this thread, huh?
The history of ethnic groups in California is more interesting than problems of dubious existence at a cemetary in one of the safest neighborhoods of L.A. County. If those problems were real LibraryMan should've complained to the appropriate authorities which I mentioned earlier in this thread.

There are some famous Italian-Americans buried in Holy Cross as well as many famous members of other ethnicities:
Holy Cross Cemetery, Culver City

.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2011, 01:50 AM
 
471 posts, read 574,558 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visit a Library View Post
I drove my mother this day to Holy Cross cemetery to put flowers on several grave plots. The speed limit at the cemetery is 20 mph I believe, which is reasonable considering...well...it's a place of rest for the deceased.

So there I am, driving to the grave plots and observing the speed limit, when a scummy looking fellow with one of those long mustaches that's typically found on felons begins riding my bumper. Then, after I reach my turn-off to another road, I see him in my rear view mirror turning to look at me, showing me his tough-guy gangbanger "I'll mess you up, hombre" look. Huh? Seriously? In a cemetery?

Then, after we've stopped and my mother and me are walking to the graves, I hear a thumping sound -- could it be somebody has been buried alive and is trying to alert us to the fact by banging on their coffin? No -- as the thumping got louder, I realized to my utter disgust that it was the booming of the stereo of some gangbanger types cruising by us in a Cadillac Escalade with tinted windows and custom rims. Seriously...we now boom music at cemeteries?

Then, on the way out, I got tailgated again, this time by a couple of girls who look like they probably date gang members and/or have family members who are gang members.

The scum in this city simply oozes into every last vestige of what was once a decent place to live.
Sounds like a typical SoCal SCUM TRASH LOWLIVES! and if the sensitive ones see racial undertones here: SO BE IT!
Yes, LA had turned into giant trashcan (or toilet that just won't quit, as someone else had put it). Many people are horrible, have no qualms about anything, no respect, no decency... yes especially younger generation.

I say that: I carry a METAL BAR in my vehicle within reach when I am in LA. Just in cases of scum attacks. So that they won't give me dirty looks: I show them that bat right back and they lose interest in me real quick.

Yes, big contrast each time coming back to LA from other parts of the country... so now I think it's time to quit on this city, it's hopeless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
16,134 posts, read 20,952,867 times
Reputation: 6492
Quote:
Originally Posted by xani View Post
Sounds like a typical SoCal SCUM TRASH LOWLIVES! and if the sensitive ones see racial undertones here: SO BE IT!
Yes, LA had turned into giant trashcan (or toilet that just won't quit, as someone else had put it).
So what race were the people who were using drugs, writing graffiti, leaving used condoms and used needles on the grounds, etc. in Hollywood Cemetary in the 1980s?

Since you probably don't know: most (but not all) were white. (Hollywood in the '70s and '80s had a large white thug population as well as the homeless problems that it is infamous for.)

Seems the "giant trashcan" has been around for some time. (But yet all it took were new owners and new management for the problems at what is now Hollywood Forever to disappear.)

BTW I asked west side friends of mine about whether Holy Cross has problems - including people with family there - and none of them said it did. It has not fallen into the condition that Hollywood Cemetary did in the 1980s and 1990s before the Forever Network took over contrary to Library Man's assertion. If there were any problems there it was a freakish one-off occurrence. The neighborhood where it is located is as safe as you can get and still be in L.A. County.

Last edited by majoun; 05-13-2011 at 12:40 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2011, 11:49 PM
 
121 posts, read 229,706 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xani View Post
Sounds like a typical SoCal SCUM TRASH LOWLIVES! and if the sensitive ones see racial undertones here: SO BE IT!
Yes, LA had turned into giant trashcan (or toilet that just won't quit, as someone else had put it). Many people are horrible, have no qualms about anything, no respect, no decency... yes especially younger generation.

I say that: I carry a METAL BAR in my vehicle within reach when I am in LA. Just in cases of scum attacks. So that they won't give me dirty looks: I show them that bat right back and they lose interest in me real quick.

Yes, big contrast each time coming back to LA from other parts of the country... so now I think it's time to quit on this city, it's hopeless.
The O.P. is a racist scum bag. That is a fact.

You just sound frustrated or paranoid. I hope you find your peace wherever you go.

This city is much safer than it was 20 years ago. So you can take your METAL BAR and go club a baby seal in Alaska if that makes you feel any better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2013 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California > Los Angeles

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top