Southern California: Aerospace Capital of the World (Los Angeles, Azusa: layoffs, contractors)

[bhcompy]

the TRW buildings are still there, just used by Northrop now

[Charles]

Not the best news for SoCal (or Colorado or Huntsville or New England or Texas or ...)

"But a top Pentagon official said Thursday that the military was anticipating "painful" cuts. "I think every one of the big programs will get some level of attention," said John J. Young, the undersecretary of Defense for acquisitions."

"...the $160-billion effort to modernize the Army are expected to be the biggest targets for cuts. The Army program, known as Future Combat Systems, calls for developing new land vehicles, aircraft and electronic equipment to make troops more agile...."

"...McCain has criticized the Army's Future Combat Systems, ..."

Budget crunch a threat to defense spending, whoever wins White House - Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,7234312.story

[Charles]

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this this morning:

Jobs go begging at Northrop Grumman - Los Angeles Times

[hsw]

Not surprising

For past ~25yrs, more and more kids have opted for CompSci or EE, not Aero and Astro or MechEngg

For past ~25yrs, over 50% of Engineering PhDs at schools like Stanford are foreign-born, so not "qualified" for security clearances....so most opt for jobs at various SiliconValley cos. instead

Many US kids (even those who finished HS and college) have weak math and English skills, leaving them poorly qualified for many jobs

Problem w/jobs in any industry, no matter how lucrative, is that a chronic shortage of smart, industrious people exists....as many of these industries like tech and finance have dramatically grown over past 20 yrs, but no. of smart, hungry guys is fairly fixed

[Radical Raul]

Maybe if parents would push their children, we would be able to fill these jobs.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by hsw

For past ~25yrs, over 50% of Engineering PhDs at schools like Stanford are foreign-born, so not "qualified" for security clearances....so most opt for jobs at various SiliconValley cos. instead

I was one of the few Americans in my UCSB graduate engineering classes. Out of about maybe 20 kids per class there were (just guessing) eight from east Asia (China? Taiwan?), eight from SW Asia (India, Pakistan?) and one or two Europeans and two or three Americans.

I snapped a photo of one of my Computer Engineering classes (and the prof was Behrooz Parhami from Iran).

See what I'm writing about? The white guy with the long hair on the far left was from Germany. The two other white guys in the front, Mike and Kip, were from California. Pretty much the rest were from east of the Mediterranean.

[edwardius]

In college I knew several people who dropped out of aerospace engineering and into electrical engineering. They said, aerospace jobs don't pay very well and you tend to get laid off when a new administration comes in.

I am sure Engineers get paid more than people in other fields, but I wonder if Aerospace Engineers get paid more than other types of engineers to make up for the risk of cutbacks?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by edwardius

In college I knew several people who dropped out of aerospace engineering and into electrical engineering. They said, aerospace jobs don't pay very well and you tend to get laid off when a new administration comes in.

I am sure Engineers get paid more than people in other fields, but I wonder if Aerospace Engineers get paid more than other types of engineers to make up for the risk of cutbacks?

I've worked 22 years in aerospace and I've only known one person who majored in Aerospace Engineering. Most of the other engineers were EEs, Mechanical, and Computer and or Comp Sci. But that's just my experience (and probably a little perception, not necessarily knowing).

The jobs I've seen are for engineers from ABET universities.

One other thing, I work with a lot (probably pushing a half) of engineers from the service academies (West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy) or retired officers from the service. Not sure if they are all degreed engineers.

Wouldn't a degree in Aerospace engineering be more limiting than electrical or mechanical? An EE for example might look at Edison or DWP or robotics or energy for example?

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by edwardius

In college I knew several people who dropped out of aerospace engineering and into electrical engineering. They said, aerospace jobs don't pay very well and you tend to get laid off when a new administration comes in.

I am sure Engineers get paid more than people in other fields, but I wonder if Aerospace Engineers get paid more than other types of engineers to make up for the risk of cutbacks?

this is correct on top of the fact that most aerospace companies have changed the way they work. my family(both mine and my inlaws) worked in aerospace most their lives(TRW, Boeing, Northrop, Hughes, Douglas, etc) and the companies(that are left out of those) have showed no loyalty towards the employees or their families. no longer will they say "hey, this guy has been a good worker for 20+ years, maybe we can give his son a job in the inventory room to see if hes a good worker. hes got a college degree and a decent resume, lets try it". gone are the days of turkeys and hams for thanksgiving and christmas. gone are the days of the aerospace companies in socal pooling together and renting disneyland(or something else) for a night for employee and family appreciation.

essentially, you've gone from a system that thrived on family(i grew up in lakewood, where damn near every family had 2 or 3 members working at boeing, hughes, mcdonnell-douglas, etc) to a system that relies on ever dwindling us born engineers that already have the experience necessary to qualify for an interview. and as has been said, you gotta worry about what program you work on because if you're in defense, space systems, or on an aircraft that is nearing its end or hasn't been purchased yet, you're always that much closer to the axe

[Charles]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

and as has been said, you gotta worry about what program you work on because if you're in defense, space systems, or on an aircraft that is nearing its end or hasn't been purchased yet, you're always that much closer to the axe

I think it was more brutal in the old days. I remember my dad getting laid off in the early 1970s - man, that was rough. Nowadays it seems companies give you severance, and they try to find you work at other facilities locally. No work at Redondo? We'll get you something at Huntington - perhaps a benefit of the mergers - work on rocket engines one week and satellites the next. My company will relo you, at its expense, to other cities where there is work.