Improved public transit in L.A.? (Orange, Burbank: insurance, neighborhoods, schools)

[Atsuke]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

I have lived in the L.A. area for 31 years..

The public transportation is mostly for illegal aliens..and I'd like to get rid of it all. Roads are cheaper to build..much cheaper..and they are the most efficient way for people to get where they're going.

I strongly disagree. LA is the place it is because it's without proper infrastructure. I'm a UCLA student and this is my lifeline to getting anywhere in this desert basin. Throwing away public infrastructure is shallow conservative thinking. It's thinking without regard for the future.

Have you ever been to Tokyo metropolitan area? Its urban square miles is bigger than that of LA (844 vs 502 sq. miles) and yet public transportation is widely used there. Surely, if it's possible in an area with a greater urban area than LA, why isn't it possible here in LA? Reason why LA's trains are so empty is because its subway lines resemble a tiny skeleton, hence unreliable at its current state. I laughed when I first moved here. You need to improve it for people to start riding, rather than build a skinny system and blame that it doesn't work because it's not reliable. Sure it's more expensive to build but long-term it'll save money. I'd pick reliable train schedules over sitting on the 405 parking lot wasting gas anyday.

The 720 Metro Express is often packed when I board, because as an east-west artery with a reliable schedule (night and day, baby!) people can depend on it. Hell, it frustrates me when I can't find a seat and the asswipe next to me is pushing me away so he can stand where I was.

The car is not king. Unless you live in the O.C., which sucks. Ugh, thinking of those long stretches of boulevards with nothing is a barren wasteland.

And as for illegals--that's another story. I'm on the same boat; something's gotta be done about 'em. But public transportation is a necessity.

Originally Posted by $musicman$

Freeways were the best way California ever spent it's money.

You mean parking lots?




For the original poster of this thread: Yes, it has improved greatly. There's an increasing trend of people riding the Metro and it's only getting better!

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

Who gave up their homes to build the useless train routes?

Answer..no one..because they used up valuable potential traffic lanes..causing the auto traffic to get worse.

Ditch the trains..replace with more lanes for auto traffic..and grow up and buy a car.

Not everyone can or should drive ... Maybe you should quit your whining and relocate yourself to OC where there's more traffic lanes for freeways ...

[True Freedom]

as with most political issues, the bulk of the vocal folks are highly polarized.. from the "transit will save the world" crowd to the "cars are cool, trains are for losers" crowd.

There are a couple of things I think most of us can agree on:
1) given that our surface streets as well as our freeways are clogged, adding more cars will just make the traveling efficiency by car worse. We can't widen everything.. especially in land locked LA.
2) our air pollution is the worst in the nation, and every single person breaths air. Cleaning up the air will benefit us all.

The solution is a multi-pronged approach. Cars are not going away, ever, nor should they. They provide a freedom and flexibility that transit does not. For cars, we should continue to invest in clean car technology (EV at first, hydrogen fuel cell long term). We should continue to improve the efficiency of driving (timed lights, easier parking, etc).

We should also invest in transit.. that goes where people need to go. This will help get some of the cars off the road and provide an alternative to those who can't drive (financial, age, etc).

We should invest in alternative modes of transport.. continue improving biking in LA and walkability.

It should not be an "all or nothing" approach, but rather a multitude of viable options.

I bike to work most days. Sometimes I take the train to downtown. Sometimes I drive my truck if I need to haul stuff or go multiple places. Sometime I take the minivan to haul my three kids around. Sometimes we walk.

[Atsuke]

Originally Posted by True Freedom

as with most political issues, the bulk of the vocal folks are highly polarized.. from the "transit will save the world" crowd to the "cars are cool, trains are for losers" crowd.

There are a couple of things I think most of us can agree on:
1) given that our surface streets as well as our freeways are clogged, adding more cars will just make the traveling efficiency by car worse. We can't widen everything.. especially in land locked LA.
2) our air pollution is the worst in the nation, and every single person breaths air. Cleaning up the air will benefit us all.

The solution is a multi-pronged approach. Cars are not going away, ever, nor should they. They provide a freedom and flexibility that transit does not. For cars, we should continue to invest in clean car technology (EV at first, hydrogen fuel cell long term). We should continue to improve the efficiency of driving (timed lights, easier parking, etc).

We should also invest in transit.. that goes where people need to go. This will help get some of the cars off the road and provide an alternative to those who can't drive (financial, age, etc).

We should invest in alternative modes of transport.. continue improving biking in LA and walkability.

It should not be an "all or nothing" approach, but rather a multitude of viable options.

I bike to work most days. Sometimes I take the train to downtown. Sometimes I drive my truck if I need to haul stuff or go multiple places. Sometime I take the minivan to haul my three kids around. Sometimes we walk.

Beautiful post.

Cars are definitely here and will always be here but it's nicer to have alternatives. I'm currently up in the Bay Area and I, too, drive on some days, take the subway or light rail on others, or cycle to downtowns. Having a city with a single, primary mode of transportation is detrimental. Transportation between SF and Oakland were saved thanks to the subway after the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.

LA is starting to back off its priorities to cars which is a good thing because we need other forms. Having all public transportation with no public roads is dumb, and having all cars with no public transportation is nonsense.

[Senshi]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

I have lived in the L.A. area for 31 years..

The public transportation is mostly for illegal aliens..and I'd like to get rid of it all. Roads are cheaper to build..much cheaper..and they are the most efficient way for people to get where they're going.

City-Data continues impresses me with the amount of ignorance.

I ditched my car, am white and am a citizen! Born in Ohio. In fact when I moved I picked a spot that had excellent access to transit solely so I could live a car free lifestyle! Gasp! I even have a college degree! I see people of all colors and walks of life riding the Metro.

Mass Transit is more cost effective, better environmentally, healthier , safer and sometimes even faster than driving.

Rail is the future. The red line is one of the reasons of the rebirth of Hollywood. Look at Hollywood/Highland before the red line and look at it afterwards. Night and day.

[ferretkona]

Originally Posted by $musicman$

Honestly, we can't say it's worked, because the costs were so outrageous compared to what it costs to build roads..(something like 1000 to 1)..that unless the whole city decided to pile on them..they will always be a joke.

And there has been no reduction in auto traffic..and the trains..(mostly light rail)..remain near empty.

..and thanks to car pool lanes..(most of which are very lightly used)..have made auto traffic much worse as well.

Most cars have one person..and the restricting of these cars from the left lane..(reserved for car pools)..has made traffc much worse.

In short..we have less lanes to drive on then we used to..and more and more cars.

All one has to do..is take the 5 freeway to Orange County.

Orange County sunk their money into bigger and wider freeways..and as soon as you leave L.A. County..you go from a huge mess to an absolute pleasure to drive.

The idea has never really paid off in LA.
Amtrak works at a loss. federally subsidized.
Diamond lanes near empty.
Express lanes are too expensive. But cost tax payers to build in the first place.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Senshi

City-Data continues impresses me with the amount of ignorance.

I ditched my car, am white and am a citizen! Born in Ohio. In fact when I moved I picked a spot that had excellent access to transit solely so I could live a car free lifestyle! Gasp! I even have a college degree! I see people of all colors and walks of life riding the Metro.

Mass Transit is more cost effective, better environmentally, healthier , safer and sometimes even faster than driving.

Rail is the future. The red line is one of the reasons of the rebirth of Hollywood. Look at Hollywood/Highland before the red line and look at it afterwards. Night and day.

I also am Caucasian who holds a Master's Degree and enjoy a car-free lifestyle. It amazes me the amount of ignorance there is about us transit riders. While many of our car-dependent posters are struggling with road rage on our congested freeways, transit riders such as myself are enjoying a nice book while we ride ... Sure makes for a much relaxed commute.

[greggd1]

Transit has grown of course.....but we need a transit grid that is efficient.
This requires construction all at the same time, not one leg at a time.

A set of light rail lines that run along all the freeways and major roads.

Anyone who gets in their car, drives to work, then drives home should be a candidate for a public rail line. At least parking a car near one's home and hoping on the rail line to work. My best example is all of those people living in the valley and commuting to Westwood Century City, LAX, Santa Monica, downtown LA should have the ability to park at a train station in the valley and hope the rail to their workplace.

It is ridiculous that we spend billions to make an extra lane along the 405 when we could simply add a rail line as part of a grid.

[ferretkona]

Originally Posted by Chatteress

I also am Caucasian who holds a Master's Degree and enjoy a car-free lifestyle. It amazes me the amount of ignorance there is about us transit riders. While many of our car-dependent posters are struggling with road rage on our congested freeways, transit riders such as myself are enjoying a nice book while we ride ... Sure makes for a much relaxed commute.

And yet each tax payer financially supports the mass transit. Buses and trains operate on tax payer money.
If you could travel on the small amount you pay for each trip you would only travel a few miles from your destination.
Mass transit operates in the negative financially each quarter and year.

I have no problem with the idea of using it (I am paying for it after all). There is no operating hours available for me to arrive by 5am.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by ferretkona

And yet each tax payer financially supports the mass transit. Buses and trains operate on tax payer money.
If you could travel on the small amount you pay for each trip you would only travel a few miles from your destination.
Mass transit operates in the negative financially each quarter and year.

I have no problem with the idea of using it (I am paying for it after all). There is no operating hours available for me to arrive by 5am.

And I'm sure my tax dollars go to support things such as roads and freeways that I never travel on ... I maybe paying for other services that benefit others less fortunate via my tax dollars ... Services that I don't have a need to utilize. Unfortunately, those who rail against mass transit have a ME mentality and conveniently forget that there are those who either cannot afford to own a vehicle or who cannot drive for various reasons (age, disability, etc...)