Is the immigration problem in California bad? (Los Angeles, Vista: middle-class, coupons)

[katenik]

Originally Posted by vfrpilot

I think a lot of people would dissagree with this statement, but that's for another forum.

yes we would, and yes it is (although i don't understand why). let's talk about what it's like to live in LA, but NOT mention immigration? what kind of alternate universe is that?

[Victor912]

In my humble opinion.....I'm not sure how anyone can say the increase in populaton numbers, (illegal or otherwise) isn't having an impact on LA/California.

Our intrastructure is in terrible condition because of the overwhelming volume of people it is forced to now support and was never designed to. And our legislators refuse to deal with the REALITY of it.

Our school system can't keep up with the increase in class room sizes as a result of the ever growing population.

Those who say immigrant's contribution to our economy outweigh the negatives; haven't visited the Western Union offices to witness the vast amount of money earned in California being wired OUT of our state/country daily.

Those same individuals also have not visited our hospitals and emergency rooms which now serve as medical centers due to the lack of medical coverage. Many many of them are closing as they cannot keep up with the demand.

Any location providing state or federally funded social services are usually standing room.

Regardless of one's position, (and this isn't the forum for that topic) I don't think anyone can honestly say there is no impact to California with the overwhelming influx of people.

Unless of course those who say there is no impact reside in Beverly Hills, Malibu, Holmby Hills, Pacific Palisades, etc. etc. then of course their exposure to the realities of day to day life and existence are vastly different from that of the average Angelino.

We are over croweded the quality of life here is deteriorating and little is being done to address the needs associated with the overwhelming influx of people. Doesnt matter where they come from.... we're over crowded.

[goodbyehollywood]

It does matter how much money the people in question bring with them and how much they send out.

If they're rich and bring money in, they buy expensive homes, contribute positively to the economy and pay higher taxes, which helps fund building out our overstressed infrastructure.

If they're not rich, are here illegally and send money out, they pay no taxes, pack a dozen people into a small apartment, increasing the density, use our services and burden our schools without paying a penny for them.

One group adds to the quality of life; the other detracts from it. So is immigration a problem and is it bad? I think we can all do the math.

[fairweathergolfer]

Very well stated. Your numbers add up perfectly.

Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood

It does matter how much money the people in question bring with them and how much they send out.

If they're rich and bring money in, they buy expensive homes, contribute positively to the economy and pay higher taxes, which helps fund building out our overstressed infrastructure.

If they're not rich, are here illegally and send money out, they pay no taxes, pack a dozen people into a small apartment, increasing the density, use our services and burden our schools without paying a penny for them.

One group adds to the quality of life; the other detracts from it. So is immigration a problem and is it bad? I think we can all do the math.

[fairweathergolfer]

I believe it is in the crapper for some and not for others. If one has children and is a middle income single parent or a parent and can't afford a private school, it is absolutely in the crapper from illegal immigration issues. It is also true for middle class and lower income folks as their communities are being taken over by gang infestation and very much cultural dissonance (the latter can happen anywhere, but it can affect not just safety, but also noise issues, boundary disputes, cultural norms violated on a large level bringing down the property values and quality of life in neighborhoods).

Also the diversion of social services to this large illegal community takes from other social and community supporting services and programs for the middle class and lower income U.S. citizens. This is especially taxing to those that can't afford to move out. Also jobs traditionally done by both groups are now whole fields taken over by mostly illegal immigrants with naturalized citizens of the same culture as their project lead or bosses. Crapper all the way for those two groups--middle income and lower--specifically within those work fields that are taken over.

The upper middle class and wealthy have it differently in that many of our neighborhoods and schools do not have the challenges listed above (because we also have private in our choices) and we also employ illegal immigrants when we hire practically any subcontractor out here for very cheap labor to practically tie our shoes in the morning (You will find these same workers doing jobs too for the middle and lower income groups as well).

Yet we pay a price in density and traffic in our communities and the freeways close to our home as well. There is also cultural dissonance in that when we try to speak to 98% of these workers they look at us and shrug or say, "No Engla." So now further disconnection and dissonance is even more disturbed. The American way of connection of humans through a diversity of income levels and race is severed, by one thing, the inability to try to communicate.

Yet we lose out too as we lose our middle class and the diversity within that class, which is especially critical for challenged communities, to see that step up within their own culture/race. Otherwise we get all poor and all rich. What does a poor kid feel then? What mentors and role models do they have for the next economic or educational level to look up to? To strive for? What do they strive for that is realistic, but also a step up? This middle class diversity is lost and filled with illegals stacking up high in houses and Latino gang members tagging and infesting communities and services and schooling once meant for the U.S. citizen (paid for by the citizens' taxes) are taken over and given instead to people who are here illegally (non tax paying) and speak only Spanish (which severely taxes the schools' resources--timewise and economically). I think that is major craper for the whole city (and state and country).

When the middle class melts away from a city it is a loss for everyone rich and poor alike.

We do however still have a diverse population from the asian cultures, to the persians, to the eastern europeans and on and on. But I think the numbers are adding up and the illegal immigrant phenomenon is decimating the lifestyle and quality of life for many Los Angeles U.S. citizens. While at the same time enhancing the quality of life for others that have less work to do around the home and the contractors and businesses that employ the illegals--they make more money.

A bit of a microscopic and dense answer (a dab of essay at times, okay and a moment of heart swelling too-LOL), but you asked . Hope there were a few tidbits for you in here. We have a large population from England here as well!

But I think if you are through with the cold and want a fresh start Southern California is worth a shot, because there is so much to offer here and such lovely environs. I say be forewarned but come to enjoy all that Southern California has to offer. There is still lots of lemonaid (spelling?) left in the glass. If you don't find it to your taste, there are 49 other great states (and Northern California) to explore. Many with sunshine as well.

Originally Posted by Ben_Hooper

Is the immigration problem in Southern California bad? England has had millions of eastern europeans move over. Work is now almost impossible to find and i'm just fed up with the community so im thinking of leaving dull, rainy, crime infested London and starting fresh over here.
Is California really in the crapper over illegal aliens from mexico and other immigration issues.

[Ben_Hooper]

thanks for the post, i'm still standing firm on the whole "New begining" in Southern California but i have looked at other places. Hawaii, Arizona and Texas are the main ones. You can clearly see that im looking for somewhere warm which is one of my main priorities.

I did look at Lake Havasu City, AZ recently. Why? The Lake i answer.
I would take full advantage of it. I would likely buy a boat seeing as house prices are much lower than elsewhere so i would have money left over to do so. Various watersports are also an advantage. However i've heard a lot of negatives about LHC like the heat, wild partying, isolation from the rest of the country (i dont like the idea of living in a big built up area, but i do like being able to access sports shops, food **in n out burger**, music stores, and the essentials). i'm sure your getting the point.

I guess suburban areas are the best choice.

[straight outta camden]

Calm down folks. The illegal population of LA is not rising. It is flat or falling. (Classrooms aren't becoming more crowded either, whoever it was that though they were--in fact there is likely to be a round of closures soon.)

The next person to whine about being overrun by illegals is hereby sentenced to read every word of this paper:

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411...Immigrants.pdf

[cottonwood2420]

Originally Posted by Ben_Hooper

Is the immigration problem in Southern California bad? England has had millions of eastern europeans move over. Work is now almost impossible to find and i'm just fed up with the community so im thinking of leaving dull, rainy, crime infested London and starting fresh over here.
Is California really in the crapper over illegal aliens from mexico and other immigration issues.

That's putting it lightly.

[cynwldkat]

I don't have any way of saying if that article was correct or not---I just wouldn't know. Maybe there aren't that many new illegals arriving as say a year ago but now it's those 5+ children those illegals had that are now legal in USA. They are here and populating. So I still have to believe there is overcrowding in those CA schools and really haven't seen any numbers that tell me anything different. CA may not be as overrun by the "illegal" immigrants but they are still many there with their "legal" offspring! This is just my personal opinion from what I have personally wittnesed.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by cynwldkat

....but now it's those 5+ children those illegals had that are now legal in USA. They are here and populating.

It doesn't help that the message the catholic church has for one of these fathers (who makes $8/hr and already has five kids) is: "Go ahead, have another kid, the government will take care of you..."