Why Drive an SUV in Los Angeles (Brea: transfer, neighborhood)

[Charles]

Originally Posted by sheri257

I drive an SUV for safety, plain and simple. Not image or anything else.

You don't see a lot of little cars in parking lots of fire stations - the firefighters' and paramedics' vehicles.

Those guys are on the scene of traffic accidents. What cars do they buy? Usually big heavy vehicles. Pickups, SUVs, etc.

Why is that?

I drive a 98 F-150 4x4 Supercab. The wife is buying the 2008 4X4 Toyota Sequoia (whenever it comes out), based on the Tundra platform. The weights are over 5000 pounds, close to six tons.

Design + Steel + Weight = Safety.

Life is too short to save eight miles per gallon.

[greggd]

Driving an SUV for Safety is fine and Im ok with SU'Vs,

Just please keep it to the right, keep it in your lane, keep it at least a couple of feet from my rear bumper at stop lights and were ok.

[James T]

Originally Posted by Charles

You don't see a lot of little cars in parking lots of fire stations - the firefighters' and paramedics' vehicles.

Those guys are on the scene of traffic accidents. What cars do they buy? Usually big heavy vehicles. Pickups, SUVs, etc.

Why is that?

I drive a 98 F-150 4x4 Supercab. The wife is buying the 2008 4X4 Toyota Sequoia (whenever it comes out), based on the Tundra platform. The weights are over 5000 pounds, close to six tons.

Design + Steel + Weight = Safety.

Life is too short to save eight miles per gallon.

Weight detracts from the ability of tires to centripetally accelerate, which is one of the reasons a light weight sports car can usually beat an SUV in a slolum.

[shannon94]

Some safety statistics..first number is Deaths ......then other deaths ...and then total deaths . These are per million vehicles. Hmmmm


Make/Model Type Driver
Deaths Other
Deaths Total
Toyota Avalon
large 40 20 60
Chrysler Town & Country
minivan 31 36 67
Toyota Camry
mid-size 41 29 70
Volkswagen Jetta
subcompact 47 23 70
Ford Windstar
minivan 37 35 72
Nissan Maxima
mid-size 53 26 79
Honda Accord
mid-size 54 27 82
Chevrolet Venture
minivan 51
34
85

Buick Century
mid-size 70 23 93
Subaru Legacy/Outback
compact
74 24 98
Mazda 626
compact 70 29 99
Chevrolet Malibu
mid-size 71 34 105
Chevrolet Suburban
S.U.V. 46 59 105
Jeep Grand Cherokee
S.U.V. 61 44 106
Honda Civic
subcompact 84 25 109
Toyota Corolla
subcompact 81 29 110
Ford Expedition
S.U.V. 55 57 112
GMC Jimmy
S.U.V. 76 39 114
Ford Taurus
mid-size 78 39 117
Nissan Altima
compact 72 49 121
Mercury Marquis
large 80 43 123
Nissan Sentra
subcompact 95 34 129
Toyota 4Runner
S.U.V. 94 43 137
Chevrolet Tahoe
S.U.V. 68 74 141
Dodge Stratus
mid-size 103 40 143
Lincoln Town Car
large 100 47 147
Ford Explorer
S.U.V. 88 60 148
Pontiac Grand Am
compact 118 39 157
Toyota Tacoma
pickup 111 59 171
Chevrolet Cavalier
subcompact 146 41 186
Dodge Neon
subcompact 161 39 199
Pontiac Sunfire
subcompact 158 44 202
Ford F-Series
pickup 110 128 238

Are the best performers the biggest and heaviest vehicles on the road? Not at all. Among the safest cars are the midsize imports, like the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. Or consider the extraordinary performance of some subcompacts, like the Volkswagen Jetta. Drivers of the tiny Jetta die at a rate of just forty-seven per million, which is in the same range as drivers of the five-thousand-pound Chevrolet Suburban and almost half that of popular S.U.V. models like the Ford Explorer or the GMC Jimmy. In a head-on crash, an Explorer or a Suburban would crush a Jetta or a Camry. But, clearly, the drivers of Camrys and Jettas are finding a way to avoid head-on crashes with Explorers and Suburbans. The benefits of being nimble—of being in an automobile that's capable of staying out of trouble—are in many cases greater than the benefits of being big.

[sheri257]

Well ... I'm not sure what your source for the statistics is but, I'm going to have to go with my personal experience here.

For one thing, being nimble wouldn't have done me much good because every time I was hit, I was rear ended sitting in traffic either waiting for the light to change or waiting for traffic to move. There was no where for me to go with cars on both sides and in front of me.

The four times I've been rear ended, three of them were small cars. I was driving a '96 Toyota Forerunner at the time with a heavy duty metal back bumper.

The small cars were totalled because the front end of those cars crumpled up like aluminum foil. All I got was a couple of dents in my rear bumper.

When I was hit by the big rig from behind, that heavy duty bumper saved me again ... this time the bumper was displaced but it lessened the impact to the point that I only suffered minor back injuries.

Now, as far as being nimble ... I will admit that there was a time lag when I hit the gas on the Forerunner when I really needed to move and change lanes in traffic but, I've experienced that same time lap with smaller cars too. IMO, it really depends on what kind of engine the car has, not so much the size of the car ...

Because with the new Toyota Tundra I'm driving there is no time lag ... I can now get up to 90 miles an hour in seconds if I need to. Which makes me much more nimble if some jerk truck driver decides he's coming into my lane regardless of the fact that I'm there.

[sweetclimber]

Most SUV drivers are trying to make up for some kind of insecurity or other issue, just a thought from a prius driver!

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by Charles

You don't see a lot of little cars in parking lots of fire stations - the firefighters' and paramedics' vehicles.

Those guys are on the scene of traffic accidents. What cars do they buy? Usually big heavy vehicles. Pickups, SUVs, etc.

Why is that?

I drive a 98 F-150 4x4 Supercab. The wife is buying the 2008 4X4 Toyota Sequoia (whenever it comes out), based on the Tundra platform. The weights are over 5000 pounds, close to six tons.

Design + Steel + Weight = Safety.

Life is too short to save eight miles per gallon.

I agree. My husband works with California Highway Patrol and they don't drive small cars either because they also see the worst traffic accidents first hand.

When we were debating whether or not to buy a new Tundra, it was actually the CHP officers who insisted that we do it.

When it comes to safety ... CHP officers typically don't recommend smaller cars.

[sheri257]

Originally Posted by sweetclimber

Most SUV drivers are trying to make up for some kind of insecurity or other issue, just a thought from a prius driver!

Yeah ... I'm definitely insecure ... no question about it.

I'm insecure about the fact that there's a million morons out there who will hit you for no reason.

It's probably because I've been hit a lot by reckless drivers, which tends to make you VERY insecure.

[Charles]

I went and got a hold the reports that these data were in. (There are many versions of essentially the same report, and the data are about the same...here's what I got.)

http://www.aceee.org/pubs/t021full.pdf

from

January/February 2003 - Sierra Magazine - Sierra Club

Very interesting. I can't disagree. I learned something. I read the entire report. I was particularly interested in why the F-150 did so poorly compared to the jetta. The report made two conclusions: 1) The jetta is designed for safety better and 2) pickups are generally driven in rural areas, poor roads, high speeds etc. (The report didn't normalize things like driver habits so sports cars did worse because they are driven by young males, minivans driven by safety conscious moms transporting their kids, and pickups did worse because of the rural factor above.)

Very surprising. I would have thought the significant weight difference in the full size pickups would override additional safety technology. (Actually, I still do.) (Coincidently, today I purchased 1.2 tons of landscaping rock for my front yard and they first weigh your truck then they load your truck then they weigh your truck again and then charge you for the weight of the rock...anyway, my truck weighted 5100 pounds without the rock.)

Here's a graphical version of the data:

Originally Posted by shannon94

Some safety statistics..first number is Deaths ......then other deaths ...and then total deaths . These are per million vehicles. Hmmmm


Make/Model Type Driver
Deaths Other
Deaths Total
Toyota Avalon
large 40 20 60
Chrysler Town & Country
minivan 31 36 67
Toyota Camry
mid-size 41 29 70
Volkswagen Jetta
subcompact 47 23 70
Ford Windstar
minivan 37 35 72
Nissan Maxima
mid-size 53 26 79
Honda Accord
mid-size 54 27 82
Chevrolet Venture
minivan 51
34
85

Buick Century
mid-size 70 23 93
Subaru Legacy/Outback
compact
74 24 98
Mazda 626
compact 70 29 99
Chevrolet Malibu
mid-size 71 34 105
Chevrolet Suburban
S.U.V. 46 59 105
Jeep Grand Cherokee
S.U.V. 61 44 106
Honda Civic
subcompact 84 25 109
Toyota Corolla
subcompact 81 29 110
Ford Expedition
S.U.V. 55 57 112
GMC Jimmy
S.U.V. 76 39 114
Ford Taurus
mid-size 78 39 117
Nissan Altima
compact 72 49 121
Mercury Marquis
large 80 43 123
Nissan Sentra
subcompact 95 34 129
Toyota 4Runner
S.U.V. 94 43 137
Chevrolet Tahoe
S.U.V. 68 74 141
Dodge Stratus
mid-size 103 40 143
Lincoln Town Car
large 100 47 147
Ford Explorer
S.U.V. 88 60 148
Pontiac Grand Am
compact 118 39 157
Toyota Tacoma
pickup 111 59 171
Chevrolet Cavalier
subcompact 146 41 186
Dodge Neon
subcompact 161 39 199
Pontiac Sunfire
subcompact 158 44 202
Ford F-Series
pickup 110 128 238

Are the best performers the biggest and heaviest vehicles on the road? Not at all. Among the safest cars are the midsize imports, like the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. Or consider the extraordinary performance of some subcompacts, like the Volkswagen Jetta. Drivers of the tiny Jetta die at a rate of just forty-seven per million, which is in the same range as drivers of the five-thousand-pound Chevrolet Suburban and almost half that of popular S.U.V. models like the Ford Explorer or the GMC Jimmy. In a head-on crash, an Explorer or a Suburban would crush a Jetta or a Camry. But, clearly, the drivers of Camrys and Jettas are finding a way to avoid head-on crashes with Explorers and Suburbans. The benefits of being nimble—of being in an automobile that's capable of staying out of trouble—are in many cases greater than the benefits of being big.

[straight outta camden]

This has to do with the way they are driven. Trucks are driven by idiots, plus a few people who need to haul large objects. SUVs are driven by brainless small-dicked men who yak continuallly on their cellphones, plus a few safety-conscious moms. In both cases, its the stupid drivers who account for the deaths. Careful drivers will be marginally safer in huge vehicles, but a careful driver in a tinny car is still a lot safer than a dumb driver in a tank.