Education in Los Angeles (Torrance, Carson: roughest, credit, school district)

[fastfilm]

Not true, Ms. Belgium, there was a catch-up law to confirm English as the primary language. There was debate about 300 years ago to have German alongside English, with the unusual appellation "Pennsylvania Dutch" referring to Germans!

gringo istmeno, I applaud your efforts as an ESL teacher. I will offer the converse of your post for debate's sake. The illegals here do not feel they have to learn English in America, although it would do only good on many levels. They insist upon keeping the language barrier in place., and do not wish to make friends outside their ethnic community. And it is their choice.

Granted, it remains far easier to acquire language skills when one is young and one's brain is developing to language acquisition anyway. But studying a second language, any language, in school or adult life should be a choice for additional business skills or social pleasure, not a requisite to accommodate lawbreakers.

My husband's teacher compatriots here bemoan the lack of emphasis on English language skills for students by many immigrant families thusly: "they neither speak nor write English or Spanish correctly. Spanglish is the norm."

[gringo istmeño]

I agree Fast Film, and is horrible that some or many immigrants don`t make more of an effort to learn English. But my suggestion is directed toward the English speakers. My idea is for us to try and be the better person (and I mean showing it, not just saying it). The one that makes the effort, sets the example. If a Spanish-speaking person feels that English-speakers must accomodate them, or look down on the English speaker for not knowing Spanish in America, well, that is just ignorant on their part. My idea of the ideal situation would be more effort on our parts to learn Spanish, meet them halfway- "Hey I`m learning Spanish! How`s your English coming along?" Really making the effort to break down barriers, even if they`re not. That`s all I can say, and I say it to both sides of the language issue.

With that said, EFL courses down here are huge. I would bet that almost any native English speaker, or even fluent English speaker, would be able to gather a big group of dedicated students and teach them English, make a decent living at it too (well, by Mexico standards) There is a huge demand here, which is weird, because like I said, these guys aren`t going to go to the US. They want to learn it for the Americans that come here, the tourists, the business-types, the GRINGAS!!! (and Gringos) The people in the streets and their stores are constantly trying to communicate in English to the tourists- no shame in it either. They could literally slaughter the language (which happens a lot)- due to the horrendous school system here, southern Mexican students (that I have encountered) have never developed very good study habits, and it is just plain HARD to learn a foreign language in a virtually all-spanish setting. But bless their hearts, they try. I wish this was going on in the states, on both sides.

[fastfilm]

I can't even patronize my local stores here in my part of the Valley as few of the clerks are conversant in English. When asked, "Why you no speak Spanish?" or even "Why aren't you bilingual?" I tend to answer in French. (If I were to study another language at this point of my life, I'd prefer to tackle Swahili or Japanese.)
This transmogrification has occurred only in the last 15 years in Los Angeles. Before, there were neighborhoods of assorted cultural preferences; now, just signage in Spanish alone, no English. Even Koreatown has actual bilingual translation.

I think Los Angeles' students are further shortchanged by thinking and/or provincial propaganda that Spanish is the only language of the entire world business arena. My teacher husband jokes that everywhere else he's been in the world, people are anxious to learn English. Except here!!!

[UB50]

Someone who asks "Why you no speak Spanish?" obviously can speak some English even if it isn't proper English. If they ask "Why aren't you bilingual?" their English is pretty darn good. I once asked a girl who only spoke Spanish if she could read an advertisement for a Franklin Mint doll. She read the entire advertisement to me and only messed up one word. I've found a lot of Latinos willing to learn English because they realize it is the key to getting better jobs.

In 1996 Latino families actually boycotted the LAUSD because they wanted their children to learn English faster and they were unhappy with the way bilingual education was being taught. They did not want their children to be taught in Spanish.

[fastfilm]

How things change, UB50. Now that our Hon. Mayor Mr. Villaraigosa will head all matters of education in Los Angeles (what job was he elected for again? Which one will be the part time job?) he has just made statements about returning to a system of textbooks in the languages of the students' parents. This was in the newspapers yesterday, already tossed, or else I'd find the exact quote. The much reviled by teachers Open Court system already offers its textbooks in Spanish to LAUSD, despite the recent statewide mandate against same.

[the one]

i was gonna suggest this same topic since the recent legislation passed giving Antonio power over schools. I am anti take over. So seeing this topic here gets me pretty excited. I am LAUSD. I see the changes happening and wish to let the current board finish its new schools initiaitve. They have built schools to ease overcrowding and have focused on Smaller Leraning Communities. while education begins at home it must also be continued at school. What you say FF is completely wrong. My family of illegals has plenty of college educated people in it. Most of them are my cousins who all happen to be first generation. Cousins who might have gone to Roosevelt, Garfield, HP, or bussed somewhere else. Education was paramount to us. This idea came from our parents who had no formal education of their own. They always said it was better to use your head than your hands. So my cousins, and im talkin about 25 to 30 (yes like all good mexicans the minimum was 5 kids) all understand the importance of education. Then i think of my friends. Some are College educated, others have been stuck in JC's for a while. and others dont even try. Of my friends who have just wasted their life away, they were the ones with the most nagging parents. Always telling thier kids to do their homeowrk. always trying to talk to teachers. always pushin their kids. but some kids just dont get it. some have undiagnosed learning disabilites. some are bored. plenty of problems. one of which is not the fact that they are latino. you showcase your stupidity when you write stuff like this. yes FF the problem is that latinos are pedagogically unmotivated. or better. the problem is that they are macho men that...Actually i still dont see how that would have anything to do with anything. please explain. all the other stuff you said gets lost. oh and open court does not work for everyone. but there does need to be a way of having curricular consitency. LAUSD has plenty of problems. but blaming them on latinos i have to say is the WACKEST MESS i ever heard.

[fastfilm]

I'm glad your extended family has cherished the importance of education. On another thread I complimented you as bearing an important opinion here, as you, the educated, computer-savvy young professional Latino, represent the future of Los Angeles.

I, however, try to offer facts beyond my own experiences or opinions, gleaned from educators with whom I converse, as my husband is a teacher, and items verified in the newspapers here, as in the headline offered within this thread.

We are in accord that Open Court does not work for everyone, my opinion based upon constantly hearing frustrated teachers' laments that they are being constrained from using their experience to get through to students in need. We are also in accord that Mayor Villaraigosa has overreached his sense of personal power by insisting upon a working an additional position for which he was not elected.

Let's do discourse. How do you think Mayor Villaraigosa's consolidation of all oversight of education in Los Angeles to him personally will affect students?

[the one]

ok ok ok. yes we agree and we disagree, i had cousins that left LAUSD for a neighboring("better") district and no one wondered where they went. it was the easiest thing for my aunt to get transcripts, no questions asked. lots if reasons why the numbers might be that. someone spoke to that already. so i dont jump on numbers that quick. but honestly the way you phrase your posts is completely insulting. yes latinos dont care about education. machismo is the cause. thats just ridiculous. thats like saying all people in watts are low achieving welfare babies. granted their mightbe some of those in the mix, but that is not the rule. so the people in your hood are the worst there is but that is not the case for a lot of people. where i live its different. and again numbers cant always tell the whole story. anyhow. students will suffer. how can antonio know what is best for students in areas he is unfamiliar with. our local super intendents and local district board members are actually elected by the voters and are the ones who show up on a regular basis. how can antonio be at a valley scchol. then a SC school. then a southeast school and still be mayor. thats why there are local districts, local superintendents. they actually listen to us. i periodically watch the school baord meetings on TV. at every meeting there is a parent who is speaking about some issue their kid is having. these questions are fielded by the respective board member. tokofsky, canter, etc. how can antonio do that? who do parents talk to? the council of mayors? mayors are mayors for a reason. he just wants to have his hand in plenty of pots. this makes it more confusing. who exactly is accountable? Antonio? even for students outside of his citys limits? or does he only care about the students in his city. how did he choose the three HS and thier feeder schools to handle. why does he leave out other school not in city boundries? if he wants to take over the district, well that includes other students not within his boundries. are we not good enough? too many problmes really. he would like to have all the answers but apparently he doesnt even know the question.

[fastfilm]

Send your conclusions stated above to the Los Angeles Times' Letters to the editors page. You've made some very valid points about Mayor Villaraigosa's lack of qualifications for the additional job to which he was not elected. It would be nice for more people to see this perspective.

The "sound byte" tag would be "No Mayor Left Behind," to go along with your conclusion that the Mayor be held for that sacrosanct accountibility. This is good stuff, the one.

For those reading about L.A. education in this thread unfamiliar with our provincial ways, our Mayor has petitioned, and won over a state mandate that essentially makes him Superintendant of Education. So... now we'll have a Mayor as head of schools in his spare time (!) and Open Court rigidity. I feel sorry for all L.A. public school students now, and in the future. They are being shortchanged by terrible policies here.

[Vicman]

Again, I wonder why L.A. has problems of higher intensities than other areas?

In Houston, I have encountered people who said "No speak English," but none of them expected me to be bilingual.

English immersion, in some areas of LAUSD, cannot work, as there is no critical mass of English-language native speakers.