Education in Los Angeles (lawyers, homes, transfer)
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Los Angeles has the worst school system in the entire United States.
Firstly, it's a huge city (4 million people inner city, 9 million L.A. county) and difficult enough to govern and oversee in any form. We have a drop out rate of 48% unlike the rest of the U.S. which is I'm guessing less than 18%. The reason for this appalling statistic is fairly simple. 76% pf the present student body (our term for student populace) is Latino, and this culture seems to not promote the importance of education as do the other immigrant cultures, plus has possible two strikes against the importance of education: its machismo (Spanish for emphasis on men only as bullying bosses of everyone) culture, which applauds bullying as the ultimate goal of achieving personal power, and its emphasis on quantity of life rather than quality of life. A family with ten children will not be having higher education of its offspring as any tenable goal. To me this is sad, because both of these cultural emphases do not promote any good to society, or its citizens.
That said, Los Angeles public schools particularly at the High School levels, are considered fairly dangerous environments for students (constant physical attacks) and the students must have a very, very advanced sense of motivation to do well. All parents above the poverty line do ANYTHING to afford to place their children in private schools.
Los Angeles schools use 15 different languages for communiques with parents or others, since most parents speak little or no English. (L.A. government uses over 100 different languages.) That means 76% of the student body is learning English for the first time in their lives, since they never will have heard it at home. Immigrant families shun all media, tv and films unless they're in the language of their home country.
Longtime public school teachers at my husband's school say the main difference in teaching over the last twenty years is this that whereas the areas they teach in used to be poor, now they are poor and very, very dangerous.
The other obstacle to decent education in L.A. is the new emphasis on scripted teaching, called Open Court, wherein teachers who deviate from saying words not in the script are fired. As you might imagine, a "one size fits all" approach to teaching is faulty, particularly in Los Angeles with its dominant population of foreign inhabitants. To be required by law to teach badly and penalize their students is so painful to some teachers that they quit. Therefore, L.A. is losing the teachers that care, and retaining only robots that will go along with anything, whether it has to do with effective education or not. Classic literature is forbidden. It is not a stimulating environment, and it is indeed puzzling that the administrators so punish effective teachers, particularly as this is such a low wage profession to begin with.
Wow, it must be pretty depressing living your life believing every stereotype you hear. First of all, although the media reports a 48% drop out rate, this is highly inaccurate. High schools do a poor job of tracking their students and while it seems that a student drops out of high school, they might be taking exit exams early, transferring high schools, moving out of state, going to adult school, and yes, in some cases dropping out. SO, in reality L.A probably does not have a 48% drop out rate and the mainstream media does a good job of scaring people and it seems like they succeeded with you.
Second, how many latinos have you talked to that actually state education is not important to them. You know, you do a great job at lumping millions of people into one group, I'm sure they appreciate it. Since I don't want to lump ALL Latinos into one category, I'm not even going to respond to this. I'll simply state that it is racist comments like yours that perpetuate unfair treatment. By the way your definition of Machismo is completely wrong. It actually means strong masculine pride and has nothing to do with bullying. Use a dictionary.
Also, you are right that poverty can be directly linked to standard of education, but it is not meerly the family's fault. In middle income or higher income, there are lots more books, whereas in lower income homes, there are less. It is not that the family does not hold education as a high priority, it might be that they don't have the knowledge to understand that reading is extremely important to success in education. So, if the students do not have books at home, it should be our job to find books for them and supply them with a great and diverse classroom library. We, as teachers affect our teaching by holding negative biases. If a teacher believes that his students will not do well, they won't. Even if the students come from the poorest communities, it is a teacher's job to teach no matter the circumstances. I would also like to so say that it is not the students' fault that the school district mismanages money.
Where do you get your statistics? Only 43% of students are English Language Learners and most if not all speak English at school. It might not be academic English, as the teacher is not giving them a chance to speak, but I guarantee that most of them speak English out in the school yard. Do some research. ([url]www.lausd.net[/url]) Also, it's ridiculous to think that non-English speaking adults shun the media unless it is only in their native language. Do you listen to Korean radio? Is it becuase you shun it or because you don't understand it??????? Or maybe because they don't offer what you want to listen to and what you relate to? FYI the Latino community brings in more money to the movie business than any other sub group, so to say they shun English language media is inaccurate.
Also poverty and no English does not equal violence. If I was a marginalized teenager, I would probably retaliate against oppressive authority, which might include other students and probably staff.
If you haven't figured it out, I am an L.A teacher and I love my students...if any of my students were headed in the wrong direction I would do my absolute best to help them out. I would not waste time blaming their problems on factors I cannot control. We should work with what we have and suck it up...
About OCR, you are right, it is a scripted program but I have not known anyone to get fired if they do not follow OCR. Personally, OCR does not do what is necessary for my students and at times it is not even rigorous enough, but it is up to me to teach the skills and concepts and supplement with materials I think would work. If anyone had half a brain, (NCLB writers included) they would realize that one program is not the end all and the answer to our problems. OUr students are reaching academic heights and it is not because of OCR, it is because of talented teachers.
I am glad to read your spirited defense of your students, which makes my heart sing. You are exactly the sort of teacher to which I referred who would find it painful to be force wrong-headed methods on their students, as with Open Court, because they so care about them. I applaud you massively. To further explain the LAUSD methods to readers here unacquainted with same, the Open Court coaches, who are employees of the private company that manufactures the system, can indeed get teachers fired if they feel the teachers aren't following the script "correctly." I know of many who have had their work records besmirched with bad reports from these "coaches." The success record of the students with these teachers apparently is irrelevant.
The statistics were gleaned from "The Daily News" and "The Los Angeles Times." My personal remarks were gleaned from life experience. When my neighborhoods changed from a nice mix of people from all over everywhere in the world into predominantly illegal immigrants, we suddenly had heretofore unknown problems like gang attacks, property vandalism, loose pitbulls, shootings, and no one ever speaking English. I have had my dogs shot while confined in my yard, I clean tons of gang graffiti off the street once a week, and vandals have attacked our property with chainsaws (!) since this demographic changeover.
Today, to protest the country voting to enforce its extant immigration laws, students ditched school (as if eschewing education would honor Cesar Chavez. Not!) and threw eggs at the "gringos" in Van Nuys and Reseda. It seems the illegal immigrants in general eschew the processes that were acceptable to all previous immigrants, that of learning the laws of this land, learning its lingua franca English, and understanding its motto is "E pluribus unum," (I'm sorry, I can't correctly conjugate the Latin) not "Out of one, many!" Or, put another way, divided we fall.
And to the person who claimed that stereotypes were my only consideration, I will cite what I wrote on another thread here:
I have imparted my views of Los Angeles from the viewpoint of someone who is not rich enough to cocoon herself, and has overview of five decades living here. I am also basing my claims on personal observation, life experience and factual data, not abstract philosophies.
I would have to admit that what bothers me most about the La Raza movement is its parallel to white supremacy. To be so xenophobic as to dislike all others who are not your race is identical to being Ku Klux Klan. This is so deja vu, and such a terrible step backwards. This country worked VERY hard to overcome social setbacks with civil rights, that to see such tribalism re-emerge is very depressing.
My life experience observations, be they of local education or safety within the non-rich neighborhoods, trace genuine deterioration of quality of life issues. I have been assaulted by gangmembers. I have had my dogs shot at. I have had my property vandalized repeatedly, and I've seen who has done this. This is a terrible way for middle class people to have to live, and it's a provincial phenomenon.
The other poster here obviously is a wonderful teacher who cares for the wellbeing of students, but I do question the following assertions: that is "normal" for marginalized teenagers to retaliate against "oppressive" authority, including other students and staff; and that "only 43% percent of L.A. students are English learners" is an acceptable statistic. This is a awful statistic.
Also, it's ridiculous to think that non-English speaking adults shun the media unless it is only in their native language. Do you listen to Korean radio? Is it becuase you shun it or because you don't understand it??????? Or maybe because they don't offer what you want to listen to and what you relate to? FYI the Latino community brings in more money to the movie business than any other sub group, so to say they shun English language media is inaccurate. I have heard that in America they really don't like to watch TV or film in any other language than there own due to the subtitles. This may be wrong for me to think, so correct me if this is not the way. But I speak many different languages not only because I've had it at school but also because we have many subtitled tv-programs. I'm Flemisch but I speak Englisch and French quite well, I understand German and a bit of Spanisch. Speaking a lot of different languages is common for the flemisch people. That's partly because all the foreign film and programs on Flemisch TV are subtitled. I find this a pleasant way to learn a foreign language. The French for example do not speak so many different languages because there dubbing all the programs with their own french-speaking voices. They also do this in Germany and in many other countries in Europe. I always did found it a bit stupid to hear Brad Pitt speaking German or French
Offcourse, America is a big supplier of many films and I think you don't have the need and the oppurtunity to see much foreign films but I still think its a great way off learning a language.
If you haven't figured it out, I am an L.A teacher and I love my students...if any of my students were headed in the wrong direction I would do my absolute best to help them out. I would not waste time blaming their problems on factors I cannot control. We should work with what we have and suck it up...That's the same way I think about my job. I'm a social worker, working with kids in child protection.
I have heard that in America they really don't like to watch TV or film in any other language than there own due to the subtitles. This may be wrong for me to think, so correct me if this is not the way. But I speak many different languages not only because I've had it at school but also because we have many subtitled tv-programs. I'm Flemisch but I speak Englisch and French quite well, I understand German and a bit of Spanisch. Speaking a lot of different languages is common for the flemisch people. That's partly because all the foreign film and programs on Flemisch TV are subtitled.
You're right - in the US it's uncommon to see subtitled movies and programs, and many people won't watch subtitled films - we're not used to it.
People in the US don't tend to be multi-lingual - we don't have to be. I grew up in Europe, my whole family is there and I've forgotten most of other languages I used to speak, except for fairly fractured French & Turkish. Everyone else in my family speaks at least one other language, some fluently.
Piggybacking on some of the other comments here, I've always been annoyed with the idea that we must incorporate various immigrant languages here. Growing up travelling, I was always expected to learn the language of whatever county we were living in, very quickly. I attended French and Greek schools*, and let me assure you, when there's no other options, kids will learn new languages fast. Immigrant kids should learn English by immersion, if they are able to. It's also valuable for US born kids to learn a second language, IMHO.
*We weren't a military family so never I went to base schools.
That there's even debate about whether English should be the primary language in the US is a ridiculous notion. I can't imagine why ethnocentricity & multilinguism (did I just make that word up?) in schools should be welcomed or encouraged. Schools are for learning the three R's, or at least they used to be.
I appreciated LAteacher's response; all teachers should have your enthusiasm.
Last edited by chiroptera; 06-21-2006 at 05:07 PM..
LA county is good, LA itself is 30% pretty good, and 70% absolute crap. Manhattan, redondo, el segundo, torrance, palos verdes, 60% of santa monica, marina del rey, malibu, glendale, burbank, bevery hills, UCLA region of west LA, larchmont, brentwood, bell-air, (west hollywood is DECENT), and most of the san gabriel valley have pretty darn good schools. They "might" not be as good as some schools in Oregon, but truth be told, more kids from the areas I mentioned in LA county will go on to be international bankers, top notch scientists and engineers, doctors, lawyers, and entrepreuneurs than the so-called "better" schools around the country.
Despite LA having bad schools, LA has way more brain power than almost anywhere with the exception of chicago, new york, and that rubs off on the population.
I am not saying LA has great schools, but a large chunk of LA county does pretty well, especially, the areas I mentioned.
Now I will agree with you that the other 70% of LA sucks. I was just talking to my grandmother today about how bad it is in LA. My wife is going to be relocating with me and she works in mental health/social services field, and I told her "Do not work with anyone east of the 405, preferably not too much east of pac coast highway. The reason is becsue it isnt safe. Why would a teacher move and taech in LA when he/she can move to sacramento, teach in safe neighborhood, and buy a house? They wouldn't. Thus there is a huge void of good skilled professionals that want to work with LA kids, or live in LA.
I also agree that policies that handcuff teachers, like the open court policy, is just making the problem worse. To be honest, if I were a teacher I woudlnt be caught dead working in LA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm
I am glad to read your spirited defense of your students, which makes my heart sing. You are exactly the sort of teacher to which I referred who would find it painful to be force wrong-headed methods on their students, as with Open Court, because they so care about them. I applaud you massively. To further explain the LAUSD methods to readers here unacquainted with same, the Open Court coaches, who are employees of the private company that manufactures the system, can indeed get teachers fired if they feel the teachers aren't following the script "correctly." I know of many who have had their work records besmirched with bad reports from these "coaches." The success record of the students with these teachers apparently is irrelevant.
The statistics were gleaned from "The Daily News" and "The Los Angeles Times." My personal remarks were gleaned from life experience. When my neighborhoods changed from a nice mix of people from all over everywhere in the world into predominantly illegal immigrants, we suddenly had heretofore unknown problems like gang attacks, property vandalism, loose pitbulls, shootings, and no one ever speaking English. I have had my dogs shot while confined in my yard, I clean tons of gang graffiti off the street once a week, and vandals have attacked our property with chainsaws (!) since this demographic changeover.
Today, to protest the country voting to enforce its extant immigration laws, students ditched school (as if eschewing education would honor Cesar Chavez. Not!) and threw eggs at the "gringos" in Van Nuys and Reseda. It seems the illegal immigrants in general eschew the processes that were acceptable to all previous immigrants, that of learning the laws of this land, learning its lingua franca English, and understanding its motto is "E pluribus unum," (I'm sorry, I can't correctly conjugate the Latin) not "Out of one, many!" Or, put another way, divided we fall.
Hey Fastfilm, although I think your views form LA are exteme, I know why you feel that way. I can relate. I know everything you say is true. You lived in your neighborhood for years just to see it slowly fall apart, and your neighbors practically drive you out by using scare tactiscs and intimidatoin. To be honest that is the LA way. I am black, but I wouldnt consider you racist at all in my opinion. It isnt that your neighorhood is dangerous becuase there are nothing but illegals there. The reason your neighborhood is dangerous is becasue there are illegals of low moral character moving in. Not all illegals are like that, but most in your neighborhood are. If you feel all "mexicans" not "illegals", but "mexicans" are bad then you are racist. If you think that legals are okay but illegals are bad, you arent racist, you are just pro-border control at best. I dont get offended when people say they are initially wary of an all black neighborhood, I am offended when people prejudge all blacks individually just because they saw boys'N da hood.
Anyhow, I agree with alot of what you have said for a change.
Last edited by Marka; 06-22-2006 at 01:59 AM..
Reason: merged
That there's even debate about whether English should be the primary language in the US is a ridiculous notion. I can't imagine why ethnocentricity & multilinguism (did I just make that word up?) in schools should be welcomed or encouraged. Schools are for learning the three R's, or at least they used to be.
In Belgium we have tree offical languages (Dutch, French and German)and we are a very small country. In the flemish part of Belgium (were I live) we start to learn French at elementary school and in high school we can choose a second language (English or German) Most students prefer English because the german part of Belgium is so small that most of the students find it more important to learn English because more people in the world speak that language. I find it normal to learn the language of the country were you live in. And when you live in a country with tree official languages you must atleast know two of them. But even in a small country like Belgium that's not so simple. In the French part of Belgium they hardly speak Dutch.
So I guess for a big country like the US with so many different immigrants it's even harder. When you ask a european what's the language in the US they all will say English but that's not the offical language. (so I read on the internet, I heard that every state can choose there own language, correct me if I'm wrong) Why does the US not have an official language???? Every immigrant in our country has to learn in some amount French or Dutch because all official documents are only in our offical languages. Why can't they do that in the US?
This is America and we don`t have to learn another language. But it would do only good on many levels. It can be fun and helpful. It can break down barriers. It can give you more career options. It can help you make new friends, you can understand your enemy, you can express your feelings, even if they are negative feelings. But it is your choice.
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