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Old 09-16-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23727

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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Freedom View Post
Hey Bob,
if there are two lanes in either direction, and you're in the right most lane, and there's not enough room to give the biker 3 feet... you switch lanes prior to passing. I know switching lanes is tough.. I mean, you have to look to see if there's a free spot, you have to signal, you might have to slow down a bit, and you have to turn the wheel a few radians ... but, sometimes we have to make *extreme* sacrifices for our fellow humans.
Yes. Because traffic clears up so easily in L.A. and there will be so many opportunities when there will be empty lanes all around you.

And people are pretty great (particularly during rush hour) about letting you in front of them into their lane. Easy as pie. I mean really, they don't want to get home to their families before 10pm any more than you do.

Just wait for it...waaaaaaaaaait for it...oh...still going 21mph safely back from that biker (a length of 2/3 of a human being) since you can't pass him yet, with cars honking horrendously all around you and swerving around you dangerously because they want to get to work in less than four hours? Well...patience, grasshopper. I mean after all, it is sooooo much easier for you to manhandle a few thousand pounds of metal around other several-thousand-pound lumps of bumper-to-bumper metal than it is for someone to, like, navigate a 1' wide bike.

Just hang in there. Eventually that time will come when there's light traffic and plenty of empty car space around you.

I'm guessing by like 2017 max.

Yeah, sometimes we have to make sacrifices for our fellow human beings.

And other times we have to make sense.

(Try not treating people like they're idiots, True. I'm fairly certain we know how to look around and use a turn signal.)

Last edited by JerZ; 09-16-2014 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:55 PM
 
1,015 posts, read 737,884 times
Reputation: 1611
I thought this was a pretty standard law across the nation, but I guess it's only in about half the states. The rest the 3 ft rule is just a guideline and not a law. Here's a map of the states with the 3ft rule:

Advocacy | Safe Cycling and Cycling Jerseys | 3FeetPlease.com 1MetrePlease.com
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
401 posts, read 604,496 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Yes. Because traffic clears up so easily in L.A. and there will be so many opportunities when there will be empty lanes all around you.

And people are pretty great (particularly during rush hour) about letting you in front of them into their lane. Easy as pie. I mean really, they don't want to get home to their families until 10pm any more than you do.

Just wait for it...waaaaaaaaaait for it...oh...still going 21mph safely back from that biker (a length of 2/3 of a human being) since you can't pass him yet, with cars honking horrendously all around you and swerving around you dangerously because they want to get to work in less than four hours? Well...patience, grasshopper.

Eventually that time will come when there's light traffic and plenty of empty car space around you.

I'm guessing by like 2017 max.

Yeah, sometimes we have to make sacrifices for our fellow human beings.

And other times we have to make sense.

(Try not treating people like they're idiots, True. I'm fairly certain we know how to look around and use a turn signal.)
If it was a bus that stopped to pick up passengers, you'd figure a way around.
If it were a garbage truck, you'd figure a way around.
If it were a slow moving delivery vehicle, you'd figure a way around.

But somehow, if it's a biker, it seems impossible to get around? What's the alternative? Dangerously squeeze by them? Ban bikes from the road?

Yes, it may be frustrating .. but I think if you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that you are slowed down by a great many things in addition to bikers. That coupled with the fact that the world does not revolve around you.. you might just have to slow down or be momentarily inconvenienced so that you don't put your fellow human's lives at risk.

I would not treat people like idiots... if they weren't idiots.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23727
Quote:
Originally Posted by genjy View Post
Good.

I ride my bike to work.
That's awesome, and healthy.

You're not one of those bikers who jets out into traffic, lights not withstanding, comes wide around blind curves and careens past car bumpers as they're pulling out and then shoving directly in front of their line of vision, prompting a heart attack on their part and a reflexive and dangerous quick slamming of brakes with other cars right behind them, are you?

Because if not, I've never met you.

I have nothing against biking. It's wonderful and healthy. And sure I'm willing to share the road. SAFELY.

But if you all think the problem is solely with the drivers, you've obviously never driven anywhere in the vicinity of a biker.

I mean ever.

And don't get me started on motorcycles and mopeds zipping between cars in zig-zag fashion and then coming to a screeching halt directly in front of the car they just cut off as the light is turning red. I mean WTH????

How about instead of giving bikers even more space where there is none, bikers and drivers alike just act intelligently, watch what they're doing, obey traffic signals (what makes bikers think they don't have to do that? Not all bikers, just in case anyone wants to throw a temper tantrum at that statement), and each give the other an appropriate amount of space for the space s/he is taking up?

Or would that be too easy and too inexpensive?
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23727
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Freedom View Post
If it was a bus that stopped to pick up passengers, you'd figure a way around.
If it were a garbage truck, you'd figure a way around.
If it were a slow moving delivery vehicle, you'd figure a way around.
Um, no, I wouldn't. Not if there were clogged traffic in the lane right next to me and I were about to swerve right into it with a screech of brakes and an ugly scratch of metal.

Would you?

Seriously, folks.

There are people like this ^ on the road.

p.s. As for the slow moving vehicles, they generally pull as far as possible over and wave you on so you know you can go. They give you room as much as humanly possible. At least the ones I've come across generally do (with the "Slow Moving Vehicle" sign on the back).

I've never yet encountered a slow-moving delivery vehicle. Does UPS have a 25mph speed limit now?

What was that you were mentioning about idiots, True?

Have you ever driven a car? Just curious. Do you seriously swerve out into a packed lane and smash into other cars to get around a bus? (And yeah, I've seen it. Hundreds of times. Holding my breath every single time as the opposite traffic then swerves in panic to get away from the car that is suddenly in their lane, nose-to-nose style.) Also, by the way, if you do have to wait behind that bus (if you wait at all, now I'm not sure and I am hoping I'm never driving next to you...my insurance rates can't take the strain), once it picks up again after stopping for, like, a nanosecond, and you're still behind the bus...does it move as slowly as a bike?

Ah well. I guess if you're willing to kill people in order to get around a bus, you're willing to to kill people to get around a bike. So I suppose this all must make sense to you. Bravo.

Again, if you're ever on the road, could you please just send me a quickie text? Because in that case I want to the f*ck off the road. I choose life.

Last edited by JerZ; 09-16-2014 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,561,310 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Freedom View Post
I would not treat people like idiots... if they weren't idiots.
I've observed the 3 foot rule my entire life, even if it wasn't officially on the books. I've never run into these hypothetical issues other posters are positing. Sometimes the other lane is full, and yes sometimes the other driver won't make room - it's f***** Los Angeles, grow a pair and cut off the driver in front of you so you don't run down a cyclist. I know you do it when merging onto freeways.

It's not hard to give cyclists the proper amount of room. People that argue otherwise are deliberately being dense.

Also I say this as someone who has never pedaled a single meter in Los Angeles. It's not that I am a cyclist advocate, just someone who respects other people. Also someone who appreciates that a cyclist / pedestrian / transit rider is taking a car off of the street, therefore improving traffic.

BTW I don't want my post to seem like I am pointing this at you TrueFreedom - sorry if it comes off that way, I just quoted you because I agree with your post.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23727
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I

Also I say this as someone who has never pedaled a single meter in Los Angeles. It's not that I am a cyclist advocate, just someone who respects other people. Also someone who appreciates that a cyclist / pedestrian / transit rider is taking a car off of the street, therefore improving traffic.
Yes, that'll fix LA's huge traffic problem. Have people bike 60 miles to work instead of driving.

I respect other people. I would assume bikers should have some obligation to respect others on the road too. But then again, I apparently live in Fantasyland.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,561,310 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
That's awesome, and healthy.

You're not one of those bikers who jets out into traffic, lights not withstanding, comes wide around blind curves and careens past car bumpers as they're pulling out and then shoving directly in front of their line of vision, prompting a heart attack on their part and a reflexive and dangerous quick slamming of brakes with other cars right behind them, are you?

Because if not, I've never met you.

I have nothing against biking. It's wonderful and healthy. And sure I'm willing to share the road. SAFELY.

But if you all think the problem is solely with the drivers, you've obviously never driven anywhere in the vicinity of a biker.

I mean ever.

And don't get me started on motorcycles and mopeds zipping between cars in zig-zag fashion and then coming to a screeching halt directly in front of the car they just cut off as the light is turning red. I mean WTH????

How about instead of giving bikers even more space where there is none, bikers and drivers alike just act intelligently, watch what they're doing, obey traffic signals (what makes bikers think they don't have to do that? Not all bikers, just in case anyone wants to throw a temper tantrum at that statement), and each give the other an appropriate amount of space for the space s/he is taking up?

Or would that be too easy and too inexpensive?
Bicyclists can be quite bad at sharing the road properly. But in my experience you are exaggerating in an extreme fashion. I'd say 1 out of 10 bicyclist hogs the road, breaks laws, runs lights, etc. The rest seem to be pretty law-abiding. I'd also say the ratio of good drivers to bad drivers is much lower than that of good cyclists to bad cyclists. Just because there are some bad cyclists does not mean that a law that protects all cyclists is out of line.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23727
Quote:
grow a pair and cut off the driver in front of you so you don't run down a cyclist.
Yes! Cut off the driver in front of you and kill both of you and, who knows, perhaps as a bonus, cause a pile-up that kills even more people who were never involved in the cutting off to begin with because...it's crueler to kill someone who drives cars than it is to kill someone who rides bikes.

For realz. Just ask the family at their funeral. They'll fully agree with you. "Well, I mean he was driving so...it's not THAT great a tragedy. Better our dad than a cyclist!"

I can only sit here and shake my head. I mean...you can't make this stuff up.

Meh, the guy driving the car was probably on borrowed time anyway, I mean he wasn't healthfully biking, he was just hanging out behind the wheel (because he was too much of a lazy *ss to bike 45 miles to work) so he was probably a heart attack waiting to happen. So not a biggie, really. Consider it a boost time-wise for the family insurance-wise. Or if nobody actually dies, hell, auto insurance companies really need to raise rates, so you're only doing them a favor. This should be posted as a public service announcement.

There you have it. Swerve away, L.A.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,561,310 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Yes, that'll fix LA's huge traffic problem. Have people bike 60 miles to work instead of driving.

I respect other people. I would assume bikers should have some obligation to respect others on the road too. But then again, I apparently live in Fantasyland.
I know people that have received tickets for riding a bike recklessly. So there is an obligation.

BTW how many people do you know in LA with 60 mile commutes? I know zero. In fact, Angelenos have some of the shortest commutes by distance in the country. So yes, if we all rode bikes it would cut down on traffic. Obviously that is not going to happen and that is not plausible for even the majority of commuters.

But guess what? You live in a big, dense urban city. Traffic will never go away, no matter mitigation measures are put into place.
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