09-16-2014, 04:35 PM
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Reputation: 4049
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JerZ
Yes! Cut off the driver in front of you and kill both of you and, who knows, perhaps as a bonus, cause a pile-up that kills even more people who were never involved in the cutting off to begin with because...it's crueler to kill someone who drives cars than it is to kill someone who rides bikes.
For realz. Just ask the family at their funeral. They'll fully agree with you. "Well, I mean he was driving so...it's not THAT great a tragedy. Better our dad than a biker!"
I can only sit here and shake my head. I mean...you can't make this stuff up.
This is just retarded. I'm sorry.
I am talking about going 30 MPH on city streets. How many people are killed in 30 MPH fender benders being rear-ended?
How many people are killed every week in Los Angeles by reckless drivers that run them down?
I guess there are some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center-of-the-world mindset. Shame, you give us all a bad name.
09-16-2014, 04:41 PM
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JerZ
Have you ever driven a car? Just curious.
I'm your perfect test case, because I live both sides of this issue.. weekly. About 50% of the time, I bike commute to work, and 50% I drive.
I do realize it can be frustrating if you have to slow down to what feels like a crawl behind a cyclist. But, you have to remind yourself that:
a) it's only temporary
b) it's for a good reason
c) you slow to a crawl for a million other non-bike related reasons driving in LA, yet you accept the inevitable-ness of those other reasons
d) add reasons a + b again.
I do realize there are cyclists who do not follow the laws properly. They should. For their safety and the safety of everyone else .. .and to not perpetuate a stereotype ... and to reduce the frustration of drivers as they learn to share the road.
I also realize there are many drivers who do not follow the laws .. around me when I'm on a bike.. and around me when I'm in my car. They should.. for all the same reasons.
I didn't quote the rest of your post for reasons that Munchitup pointed out.
09-16-2014, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
munchitup
This is just retarded. I'm sorry.
I am talking about going 30 MPH on city streets. How many people are killed in 30 MPH fender benders being rear-ended?
How many people are killed every week in Los Angeles by reckless drivers that run them down?
I guess there are some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center-of-the-world mindset. Shame, you give us all a bad name.
I edited and added the non-death disclaimer.
And you're right. If it's a non-fatal accident and just maybe a few grand worth of body damage (maybe just, say, one car panel? Or the radiator...), then that should be no big deal at all and something we should be willing to risk. Or, you know, be blanket-labeled a me-first person.
(We don't want THAT.) Or even "retarded."
Yes, there ARE some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center of the world mindset. This definitely includes cyclists. I mean now YOU'RE just being silly, to hint that it's drivers who own the corner market on that one. Seriously?
Again, no biggie. You swerve and cut off thousands of pounds of metal any old time. Just don't do it in my neighborhood. Can I put you on that list of texts to get off the road when you get on? I pay my insurance company enough as it is.
"Me first," seriously? I HAVE swerved (in a panic) around cyclists performing seriously wide turns, occasionally bothering to glance back at me screeching my breaks in order to give me a disgusted look for having been, I don't know...driving? In my lane?...so as not to kill them. Wouldn't be my first choice, but now apparently it's going to be a rule.
09-16-2014, 04:49 PM
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JerZ
I edited and added the non-death disclaimer.
And you're right. If it's a non-fatal accident and just maybe a few grand worth of body damage (maybe just, say, one car panel? Or the radiator...), then that should be no big deal at all and something we should be willing to risk.
Again, I follow the 3-foot rule and have for my entire 4+ year run in LA, I usually move into other lanes to avoid bicyclists, occasionally having to be a little aggressive in getting in front of the other car. Never once have I even come close to an accident. If it is impossible to partially move into the other lane, I slow down until there is room to move over. If there isn't room ever, guess what? I just drive slowly behind the cyclist until I get to the next light.
It's really just not a problem and really shouldn't be something that people are complaining so vociferously about. You may not realize it, but you really sound selfish. I can't express enough how much of a non-problem this is to drivers in LA, and how much of a problem cyclists being hit and killed
is a problem in LA. I am pretty sure we are one of the worst in the nation for this, infrastructure and the cyclists themselves are partially to blame, but it is quite clear that the weight of the issue is negligent drivers.
09-16-2014, 04:49 PM
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Munchtip, you seriously need to make "Serve Away, L.A." your motto.
How many people do I know with 45 mile commutes? Probably 50% of my neighborhood. Including my husband. (60 miles may have been an exaggeration. Let's put it this way: about 70 minutes without traffic, when there ever is such a thing, and about two hours with normal traffic.) ETA: Did you edit that question out? I don't see it now.
09-16-2014, 04:53 PM
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So to be a bit more reasonable and less facetious about this...
What on earth good is a law that causes one to break laws, and/or endanger?
As Munchtip has said (several times now), the only obvious solution is to swerve and to "cut someone else off." (Though apparently we're supposed to grow a set first. I wonder if that's part of this new law. I can try...my husband won't be pleased but, well, you know...rules are rules.)
How is this helping? How exactly is it a solution?
As for sounding selfish, not sure how you're getting that. I don't want people to be killed on bikes AND I don't want people to be killed in cars. I want bikers to be in their lanes and I want cars to be in their lanes (and stay there, unless passing is SAFE). If that's selfish in your world, then it is...I really can't help you there.
09-16-2014, 05:00 PM
Location: Pasadena, CA
401 posts, read
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A few random thoughts comparing my commute on bike and by car:
1) even though the speed limit on most the roads I travel is 30-35 mph, the actual average speed in the car is around 20 mph due to stop lights. When I'm on my bike, cars will floor it to get around, but then I catch them at the next light. Over a distance, we end up traveling the same distance in roughly the same amount of time. Of course, this would not be the case everywhere, but in the flat, grid-like portion of Pasadena it is. When I drive my car, I don't accel/decel hard light to light, but rather keep a nice steady speed. This infuriates some drivers, but yet, they don't get anywhere any faster .. and they have higher blood pressure and higher gas bills and get their brakes replaced more often.
2) my bike commute would take just a tad longer than my car commute, except that I take a much longer route to get home because there are some serious gaps in the biking infrastructure on my route (read: some downright scary and dangerous sections). Our bike infrastructure needs to be improved to connect disjoint sections so there's a meaningful bike network
09-16-2014, 05:00 PM
Location: Los Angeles
8,464 posts, read
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Reputation: 10705
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JerZ
So to be a bit more reasonable and less facetious about this...
What on earth good is a law that causes one to break laws, and/or endanger?
As Munchtip has said (several times now), the only obvious solution is to swerve and to "cut someone else off." (Though apparently we're supposed to grow a set first. I wonder if that's part of this new law. I can try...my husband won't be pleased but, well, you know...rules are rules.)
How is this helping? How exactly is it a solution?
As for sounding selfish, not sure how you're getting that. I don't want people to be killed on bikes AND I don't want people to be killed in cars. I want bikers to be in their lanes and I want cars to be in their lanes (and stay there, unless passing is SAFE). If that's selfish in your world, then it is...I really can't help you there.
BINGO, I think we have a winner here.
Bob.
09-16-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
True Freedom
This infuriates some drivers, but yet, they don't get anywhere any faster .. and they have higher blood pressure and higher gas bills and get their brakes replaced more often.
This is actually a really good point and so true.
So many times I've had some androgen-charged teen zoom past me with a roar of accel and wind up...well, right next to me at the next red light, LOL.
I'm grateful that my husband is a SAFE driver. His commute is torture - from Glendora to Beverly Hills - yet he makes himself not get hot-headed. He makes sure he gets home to us. <3
09-16-2014, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
True Freedom
2) my bike commute would take just a tad longer than my car commute, except that I take a much longer route to get home because there are some serious gaps in the biking infrastructure on my route (read: some downright scary and dangerous sections). Our bike infrastructure needs to be improved to connect disjoint sections so there's a meaningful bike network
^ Now here is where intelligent money might be spent to keep cyclists safe.
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Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)