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Old 09-16-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,563,975 times
Reputation: 3941

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Yes! Cut off the driver in front of you and kill both of you and, who knows, perhaps as a bonus, cause a pile-up that kills even more people who were never involved in the cutting off to begin with because...it's crueler to kill someone who drives cars than it is to kill someone who rides bikes.

For realz. Just ask the family at their funeral. They'll fully agree with you. "Well, I mean he was driving so...it's not THAT great a tragedy. Better our dad than a biker!"

I can only sit here and shake my head. I mean...you can't make this stuff up.
This is just retarded. I'm sorry.

I am talking about going 30 MPH on city streets. How many people are killed in 30 MPH fender benders being rear-ended?

How many people are killed every week in Los Angeles by reckless drivers that run them down?

I guess there are some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center-of-the-world mindset. Shame, you give us all a bad name.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
401 posts, read 604,496 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Have you ever driven a car? Just curious.
I'm your perfect test case, because I live both sides of this issue.. weekly. About 50% of the time, I bike commute to work, and 50% I drive.

I do realize it can be frustrating if you have to slow down to what feels like a crawl behind a cyclist. But, you have to remind yourself that:
a) it's only temporary
b) it's for a good reason
c) you slow to a crawl for a million other non-bike related reasons driving in LA, yet you accept the inevitable-ness of those other reasons
d) add reasons a + b again.

I do realize there are cyclists who do not follow the laws properly. They should. For their safety and the safety of everyone else .. .and to not perpetuate a stereotype ... and to reduce the frustration of drivers as they learn to share the road.

I also realize there are many drivers who do not follow the laws .. around me when I'm on a bike.. and around me when I'm in my car. They should.. for all the same reasons.

I didn't quote the rest of your post for reasons that Munchitup pointed out.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23732
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
This is just retarded. I'm sorry.

I am talking about going 30 MPH on city streets. How many people are killed in 30 MPH fender benders being rear-ended?

How many people are killed every week in Los Angeles by reckless drivers that run them down?

I guess there are some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center-of-the-world mindset. Shame, you give us all a bad name.
I edited and added the non-death disclaimer.

And you're right. If it's a non-fatal accident and just maybe a few grand worth of body damage (maybe just, say, one car panel? Or the radiator...), then that should be no big deal at all and something we should be willing to risk. Or, you know, be blanket-labeled a me-first person. (We don't want THAT.) Or even "retarded."

Yes, there ARE some people in Los Angeles that personify that me-first, I-am-the-center of the world mindset. This definitely includes cyclists. I mean now YOU'RE just being silly, to hint that it's drivers who own the corner market on that one. Seriously?

Again, no biggie. You swerve and cut off thousands of pounds of metal any old time. Just don't do it in my neighborhood. Can I put you on that list of texts to get off the road when you get on? I pay my insurance company enough as it is.

"Me first," seriously? I HAVE swerved (in a panic) around cyclists performing seriously wide turns, occasionally bothering to glance back at me screeching my breaks in order to give me a disgusted look for having been, I don't know...driving? In my lane?...so as not to kill them. Wouldn't be my first choice, but now apparently it's going to be a rule.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 12,563,975 times
Reputation: 3941
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
I edited and added the non-death disclaimer.

And you're right. If it's a non-fatal accident and just maybe a few grand worth of body damage (maybe just, say, one car panel? Or the radiator...), then that should be no big deal at all and something we should be willing to risk.
Again, I follow the 3-foot rule and have for my entire 4+ year run in LA, I usually move into other lanes to avoid bicyclists, occasionally having to be a little aggressive in getting in front of the other car. Never once have I even come close to an accident. If it is impossible to partially move into the other lane, I slow down until there is room to move over. If there isn't room ever, guess what? I just drive slowly behind the cyclist until I get to the next light.

It's really just not a problem and really shouldn't be something that people are complaining so vociferously about. You may not realize it, but you really sound selfish. I can't express enough how much of a non-problem this is to drivers in LA, and how much of a problem cyclists being hit and killed is a problem in LA. I am pretty sure we are one of the worst in the nation for this, infrastructure and the cyclists themselves are partially to blame, but it is quite clear that the weight of the issue is negligent drivers.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23732
Munchtip, you seriously need to make "Serve Away, L.A." your motto.

How many people do I know with 45 mile commutes? Probably 50% of my neighborhood. Including my husband. (60 miles may have been an exaggeration. Let's put it this way: about 70 minutes without traffic, when there ever is such a thing, and about two hours with normal traffic.) ETA: Did you edit that question out? I don't see it now.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23732
So to be a bit more reasonable and less facetious about this...

What on earth good is a law that causes one to break laws, and/or endanger?

As Munchtip has said (several times now), the only obvious solution is to swerve and to "cut someone else off." (Though apparently we're supposed to grow a set first. I wonder if that's part of this new law. I can try...my husband won't be pleased but, well, you know...rules are rules.)

How is this helping? How exactly is it a solution?

As for sounding selfish, not sure how you're getting that. I don't want people to be killed on bikes AND I don't want people to be killed in cars. I want bikers to be in their lanes and I want cars to be in their lanes (and stay there, unless passing is SAFE). If that's selfish in your world, then it is...I really can't help you there.
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
401 posts, read 604,496 times
Reputation: 391
A few random thoughts comparing my commute on bike and by car:

1) even though the speed limit on most the roads I travel is 30-35 mph, the actual average speed in the car is around 20 mph due to stop lights. When I'm on my bike, cars will floor it to get around, but then I catch them at the next light. Over a distance, we end up traveling the same distance in roughly the same amount of time. Of course, this would not be the case everywhere, but in the flat, grid-like portion of Pasadena it is. When I drive my car, I don't accel/decel hard light to light, but rather keep a nice steady speed. This infuriates some drivers, but yet, they don't get anywhere any faster .. and they have higher blood pressure and higher gas bills and get their brakes replaced more often.

2) my bike commute would take just a tad longer than my car commute, except that I take a much longer route to get home because there are some serious gaps in the biking infrastructure on my route (read: some downright scary and dangerous sections). Our bike infrastructure needs to be improved to connect disjoint sections so there's a meaningful bike network
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,765 posts, read 6,924,903 times
Reputation: 6373
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
So to be a bit more reasonable and less facetious about this...

What on earth good is a law that causes one to break laws, and/or endanger?

As Munchtip has said (several times now), the only obvious solution is to swerve and to "cut someone else off." (Though apparently we're supposed to grow a set first. I wonder if that's part of this new law. I can try...my husband won't be pleased but, well, you know...rules are rules.)

How is this helping? How exactly is it a solution?

As for sounding selfish, not sure how you're getting that. I don't want people to be killed on bikes AND I don't want people to be killed in cars. I want bikers to be in their lanes and I want cars to be in their lanes (and stay there, unless passing is SAFE). If that's selfish in your world, then it is...I really can't help you there.

BINGO, I think we have a winner here.

Bob.
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23732
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Freedom View Post
This infuriates some drivers, but yet, they don't get anywhere any faster .. and they have higher blood pressure and higher gas bills and get their brakes replaced more often.
This is actually a really good point and so true.

So many times I've had some androgen-charged teen zoom past me with a roar of accel and wind up...well, right next to me at the next red light, LOL.

I'm grateful that my husband is a SAFE driver. His commute is torture - from Glendora to Beverly Hills - yet he makes himself not get hot-headed. He makes sure he gets home to us. <3
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Old 09-16-2014, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Southern California
25,341 posts, read 24,141,953 times
Reputation: 23732
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Freedom View Post

2) my bike commute would take just a tad longer than my car commute, except that I take a much longer route to get home because there are some serious gaps in the biking infrastructure on my route (read: some downright scary and dangerous sections). Our bike infrastructure needs to be improved to connect disjoint sections so there's a meaningful bike network
^ Now here is where intelligent money might be spent to keep cyclists safe.
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