Leaving La / California - Asap (Long Beach, Pasadena: real estate, house, rent)

[newportbeachsmostwanted]

Originally Posted by dutchie

Count your blessings.
Yes, graffiti, yes surveillance (thank god they DO have this where would you otherwise be ??), yes crime.. which you will find in any other big city, .

This is the problem with America. People are accepting problems. Too many people are too lazy and depressed to strive to fix them. NO ONE is thinking-how can we make this city any better???

Who the heck cares what other cities have wrong? Let's focus on ourselves.

[dutchie]

It is sad to read that such horrible things are happening in your neighbourhood and I do realise that I am privileged to live elsewhere in the city where I do not encounter these experiences.

I can see how your posts slightly tend to be against foreigners, which is a shame, but reading where you come from it is understandable.

However, there are many foreigners who came to the US and try -just as much as you and your husband- make a living here.

Please keep that also in mind.... ?

No matter what, I keep saying: let's think positively !

Good luck.

[dutchie]

newportbeachmostwanted.... forgive me if I was not clear,
every big city struggles with problems, so instead of just
complaining about it... do something and in the meantime: count your blessings in the city where you live...

that's my point.
it's too easy to just complain, but do something about it with a positive attitude.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by fastfilm

I'm not going to challenge your worldly experience dutchie, and I certainly respect that, but I stand by the assessment that if one is not well to do in Los Angeles, there are more problems in more widespread areas than other American cities. Read the first post in this thread: those other urban areas have isolated spots within the centralized zones, not area after area after area after area wherein gangs terrorize middle class citizens as well as the hapless poor. This is supposed to be a major American City, not the slums of a third world country. Twenty years ago, I don't think anyone reading this forum would even entertain comparing Los Angeles to a third world city, but now? (this is not meant as a racial slur in the slightest: my comparison is to the sheer majority volume of poor residents and accompanying crime, versus the usual American urban mix of larger middle class, with some rich and some poor.)

Actually, I believe the book "Los Angeles: Capital Of the Third World" did come out 20 years ago. And "City Of Quartz" didn't come out that much later.

And your knowledge of the rest of America is a bit out of date ; what you observe happening in LA is similar to what is going on in a large part of the US. LA does have the smallest middle class in the US, but the only reason why NYC is #2 rather than #1 is because Brooklyn and Queens still have large middle classes. (BTW, one would have found area after area of really high crime rates in NYC 20 years ago, including even in some middle class areas of which then there were more of. However, action was taken regarding these problems, which is why they are at a smaller level).

And if one looks at those cities most similar to LA, like Las Vegas and Phoenix, one finds the same problems (Phoenix has a higher crime rate than LA, including a higher violent crime rate).

The shrinking of the middle class is a nationwide problem, which has its roots in the Reagan era (although the US didn't lose its middle class majority until George W. Bush's administration)

Unfortunately, it is sad for you that crime in the Valley has increased even though it has decreased on the other side of the hill. However - not to make this any sort of personal attack, because it isn't - the LAUSD's failure and incompetence have much to do with why the gang problem is at the level that it is. They're not solely to blame by any means, but they bear a large share of the guilt.

[Pacificop]

Yes I too feel the depression of landing back in Los Angeles and Ontario (Sub-LAX airport in San Bernardino County – some 60 miles due east). The barren landscape of tan, off white concrete and flat landscape leaves much to be desired in comparison to the greener areas of the country. I went to Disneyworld this summer and remarked that the Orlando Airport has more greenery than my whole neighborhood. Yes, I know this debate isn’t about the landscape in its physical form as much as its human experience. But, as soon as I hit the airport proper and especially when I go outside and can see and smell the air, I get a down feeling. My thoughts are usually, “Okay, the trip is over. Dig in, watch yourself and remember where you are.” Is it worse in other places in the world? Absolutely. Do I live there? No. Is it worthy of debate in this forum based on its intention? Debatable, but in my humble opinion, respectfully no.

Sometimes, these comparative arguments are much like two old people arguing about who has the worst ailment and bragging as to who has the toughest medicine regime. When I hear this, I think, oh man have you two lost touch with reality or what? Why are we comparing who has the worst place to live?

Again, I say, for those of you who have never lived or visited outside of Southern California, you do not know that life here is not “normal”. Some of the responses I have read confirm this wholly and thoroughly. Others disagree and that’s fine, there are worse places, but I wasn’t seeking comparison of the worst. I have said and maintain that there are better places with less criminal mentality, cleaner and more family oriented. And still others, who by their posts have never gone further east than Las Vegas (a country in and of itself in many respects), still defend LA with a “it’s the same thing everywhere” response that just befuddles me. You have got to go on a trip of this beautiful country and see how some of the rest of country is fairing. Do not stay exclusively in the major cities! Every major city is bound to have similar problems. I never suggested LA is the worst or unique in that respect, nor would I suggest moving from one major city to another and expect a vast difference. But for all of its hoop and holler in the press and movies, LA ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Are there crime stats for every medium sized city that seem to rival or even exceed Los Angeles? Yes. But when you combine the geographic region that is Los Angeles and were to add up those stats together, and you must do this because four major cities or areas with separate stating sites can come together in a four corner intersection, than I think you see the reality of the true crime stats. Again, when you go to other regions of the US, a city may have its crime yet it doesn’t sprawl out in every city and multiple counties for a criminal geographic region 80 miles by 80 miles. Take all of the cities in Los Angels County and add up the crime states and compare that to the same geographic land size elsewhere and watch the disparity in the numbers. That’s the rub.

Funny, when my German friends visit, of course I must take them to “Hollywood” and to “Baywatch Beach” – damn that Hasselhof! Every single one of them for the past two decades has been unimpressed and disappointed, well except for maybe the plastic blondes in Beverly Hills – most of the guys do enjoy that view. But, they all expect what they see in the movies. I think many readers living in other parts of this country who have never visited LA are expecting the same thing. BEWARE – visit before you take the job and plunk down $150,000 as just your deposit on your home. A price you can get a wonderful home in many parts of the country.

I started this post with a venting rant prior to going on vacation / destination research and feel now humbled at the response it has generated. Funny thing, my intention was to maybe get people to speak about some other places to live but what has transpired has been a 98% clean and articulate debate on socio-economics of varying opinions. Pretty neat. You guys are great!

[majoun]

Phoenix is not a "medium sized city", it's a big sprawling city and metro area that just passed up Philly in population. (Unless you consider Philly to also be a "medium sized city"). Its crime rate being higher than LA's is perfectly relevant.

And, FYI, I have been to a huge portion of the US (and some other countries) and have lived on the East Coast (although born and raised in LA), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

L.A.'s problems aren't different from many other places in kind, only in intensity. You can find similar problems all over the US.

[UB50]

Originally Posted by Pacificop

Yes I too feel the depression of landing back in Los Angeles and Ontario (Sub-LAX airport in San Bernardino County – some 60 miles due east). The barren landscape of tan, off white concrete and flat landscape leaves much to be desired in comparison to the greener areas of the country. I went to Disneyworld this summer and remarked that the Orlando Airport has more greenery than my whole neighborhood. Yes, I know this debate isn’t about the landscape in its physical form as much as its human experience. But, as soon as I hit the airport proper and especially when I go outside and can see and smell the air, I get a down feeling. My thoughts are usually, “Okay, the trip is over. Dig in, watch yourself and remember where you are.” Is it worse in other places in the world? Absolutely. Do I live there? No. Is it worthy of debate in this forum based on its intention? Debatable, but in my humble opinion, respectfully no.

Sometimes, these comparative arguments are much like two old people arguing about who has the worst ailment and bragging as to who has the toughest medicine regime. When I hear this, I think, oh man have you two lost touch with reality or what? Why are we comparing who has the worst place to live?

Again, I say, for those of you who have never lived or visited outside of Southern California, you do not know that life here is not “normal”. Some of the responses I have read confirm this wholly and thoroughly. Others disagree and that’s fine, there are worse places, but I wasn’t seeking comparison of the worst. I have said and maintain that there are better places with less criminal mentality, cleaner and more family oriented. And still others, who by their posts have never gone further east than Las Vegas (a country in and of itself in many respects), still defend LA with a “it’s the same thing everywhere” response that just befuddles me. You have got to go on a trip of this beautiful country and see how some of the rest of country is fairing. Do not stay exclusively in the major cities! Every major city is bound to have similar problems. I never suggested LA is the worst or unique in that respect, nor would I suggest moving from one major city to another and expect a vast difference. But for all of its hoop and holler in the press and movies, LA ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Are there crime stats for every medium sized city that seem to rival or even exceed Los Angeles? Yes. But when you combine the geographic region that is Los Angeles and were to add up those stats together, and you must do this because four major cities or areas with separate stating sites can come together in a four corner intersection, than I think you see the reality of the true crime stats. Again, when you go to other regions of the US, a city may have its crime yet it doesn’t sprawl out in every city and multiple counties for a criminal geographic region 80 miles by 80 miles. Take all of the cities in Los Angels County and add up the crime states and compare that to the same geographic land size elsewhere and watch the disparity in the numbers. That’s the rub.

Funny, when my German friends visit, of course I must take them to “Hollywood” and to “Baywatch Beach” – damn that Hasselhof! Every single one of them for the past two decades has been unimpressed and disappointed, well except for maybe the plastic blondes in Beverly Hills – most of the guys do enjoy that view. But, they all expect what they see in the movies. I think many readers living in other parts of this country who have never visited LA are expecting the same thing. BEWARE – visit before you take the job and plunk down $150,000 as just your deposit on your home. A price you can get a wonderful home in many parts of the country.

I started this post with a venting rant prior to going on vacation / destination research and feel now humbled at the response it has generated. Funny thing, my intention was to maybe get people to speak about some other places to live but what has transpired has been a 98% clean and articulate debate on socio-economics of varying opinions. Pretty neat. You guys are great!

It's funny you would mention Orlando in this whole rant. Orlando, and it's outlying areas, has a significantly higher violent crime rate than Los Angeles. Were you aware of that? Orlando (proper) has almost the same population as Glendale (around 200,000 people). Orlando had something like 50 murders last year. Glendale had 2.

Put on your rosey glasses and report what you see -- but after you live there for awhile you will find it isn't much different from what you left.

[fastfilm]

As a five decade resident here and traveller over much of the U.S. (by car) I'm on the side of validating majoun's reference to the "intensity" of crime here, along with pacificops's correlation of all the different areas of L.A. into one dreadful crime statistic that trumps other urban centers' smaller scaled ones, because it's true. There are more areas wherein one is sure to be touched by criminal activities daily here, be they nuisance (graffiti vandalism) to outright assault. Check lapd.org's crime maps in as many areas as you can that aren't the hillside mountaintop gated uppercrust: validation of same, most everywhere else.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by fastfilm

As a five decade resident here and traveller over much of the U.S. (by car) I'm on the side of validating majoun's reference to the "intensity" of crime here, along with pacificops's correlation of all the different areas of L.A. into one dreadful crime statistic that trumps other urban centers' smaller scaled ones, because it's true. There are more areas wherein one is sure to be touched by criminal activities daily here, be they nuisance (graffiti vandalism) to outright assault. Check lapd.org's crime maps in as many areas as you can that aren't the hillside mountaintop gated uppercrust: validation of same, most everywhere else.

Mostly nonsense...you guys keep repeating the same nonsense in the apparent belief that repetition will make it true.

The crime in LA is simply not as bad as that in any number of middle sized cities in the rust belt. Just a fact. No amount of playing with "combining" statitistics will change that. It is simply more dangerous to live in Buffalo or Cleveland than in LA.

Illegals do increase the crime total. They also decrease the crime rate. Fresh in illegals commit crimes at a rate far lower than natives. The crime rate among illegals grow as they stay here and approaches that of natives after some years. So if you want to decrease the crime rate bring in more illegals.

I think the problem of fastflm and others is the driving of the lower middle class toward the poor. The lower middle class does not care for it. That is a large social problem with how we are running our society. Maybe we need to bring back a really graduated income tax.

Has little to do with illegal however. If the illegals went away we would now be picking on hispanic poor. Just getting closer to those below us that is uncomfortable.

[fastfilm]

The LAPD's crime maps site isn't nonsense, unlike the strange juxtapositioning of illegals in paragraph 3, whom I witness as micreants daily. They pick on the citizens, not vice versa. Do you live in 2007 Los Angeles like most of the posters here who offer personal observations, whatever their P.O.V.?

One bizarre omission in your comparison of crime stats and socio-economic levels to rust belt cities is the cost of living for identical wages being 30% more in Los Angeles than, say, Cleveland. That alone would put low-to-mod wage-earners here firmly back into the middle class and its better quality of life elsewhere. And they'd concomitantly be in safer residential choices. We plan on taking advantage of that bizarre omission in the near future.