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Many MDs especially non specialists don't make nearly as much as you would imagine if you take the NPV of their earnings.
If you take the present value of the earnings of a Teacher (50k) and a General Pediatrician (175k) for 30 years after undergrad. The Pediatrician makes about 85% more. Not that amazing considered the amount of work and stress involved.
Of course you can say the MD can specialize into different areas (however this will increase residency time), but the teacher can also go into administration so I think my original point still stands.
Earning 50k as a teacher getting several months a year off is a pretty cush lifestyle.
Younger doctors will work longer hours early on, while that number decreases with age.
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Administrators don't make nearly as much as doctors (unless you're at or near the Superintendent level) and usually teachers have to go back to school to become an Admin. Stress level isn't the same as a doctor, but Admins do regularly work 60+ hour weeks...and it's not not stressful.
In any case even at the minimum a doctor is going to make (at least) nearly triple that at the end of career than a teacher. This affords a lot of opportunities and puts the doctor in a totally different class than the teacher.
Teaching isn't exactly a cush lifestyle for those 9 months (especially if they are doing their job). Teachers can work, depending on the subject 50+ hour weeks. Have a lot of adjunct duties, be an advisor, coach, chaperone, etc. And they are compensated accordingly for those hours. Doctors get the eventual pay they deserve from working long hours and are on call.
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At this point I don't really know what I'm arguing other than the obvious. Doing either job (well) is tough and one pays a lot more than the other; and rightfully so. I think it's very tough to argue that being a doctor is not worth it. Their potential earnings is through the roof and they will out earn anyone in the educational field every single time.
That being said you couldn't pay me to be a doctor or a teacher. 1. I would fail medical school, 2. Having to discipline students all day, deal with parents and actually teach them something worthwhile under certain guidelines, is not my cup of tea. It would have to offer a starting salary of at least 80-90k to even consider it as an option.
That being said you couldn't pay me to be...a teacher, 2. Having to discipline students all day, deal with parents and actually teach them something worthwhile under certain guidelines, is not my cup of tea. It would have to offer a starting salary of at least 80-90k to even consider it as an option.
But you thought about teaching philosophy at a private girls's school? Was it the salary that changed your mind?
Our kids went to parochial high schools. A few of their teachers said that despite the lower salaries there, they preferred not having to deal with the discipline problems they'd face at a public high school.
Younger doctors will work longer hours early on, while that number decreases with age.
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Administrators don't make nearly as much as doctors (unless you're at or near the Superintendent level) and usually teachers have to go back to school to become an Admin. Stress level isn't the same as a doctor, but Admins do regularly work 60+ hour weeks...and it's not not stressful.
In any case even at the minimum a doctor is going to make (at least) nearly triple that at the end of career than a teacher. This affords a lot of opportunities and puts the doctor in a totally different class than the teacher.
Teaching isn't exactly a cush lifestyle for those 9 months (especially if they are doing their job). Teachers can work, depending on the subject 50+ hour weeks. Have a lot of adjunct duties, be an advisor, coach, chaperone, etc. And they are compensated accordingly for those hours. Doctors get the eventual pay they deserve from working long hours and are on call.
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At this point I don't really know what I'm arguing other than the obvious. Doing either job (well) is tough and one pays a lot more than the other; and rightfully so. I think it's very tough to argue that being a doctor is not worth it. Their potential earnings is through the roof and they will out earn anyone in the educational field every single time.
That being said you couldn't pay me to be a doctor or a teacher. 1. I would fail medical school, 2. Having to discipline students all day, deal with parents and actually teach them something worthwhile under certain guidelines, is not my cup of tea. It would have to offer a starting salary of at least 80-90k to even consider it as an option.
I'm also not sure what you're arguing about. I don't disagree with anything you've said except that MD salaries are "through the roof". 175-200k for a GP in LA is honestly not that impressive. It is be a good middle class/ upper middle class income with dual income, but nothing out of this world. Surely, a Neurosurgeon bringing in 6 figures/7 figures is a different story, but that's not what I ever was talking about.
But you thought about teaching philosophy at a private girls's school? Was it the salary that changed your mind?
Our kids went to parochial high schools. A few of their teachers said that despite the lower salaries there, they preferred not having to deal with the discipline problems they'd face at a public high school.
That was a long time ago. The salary was low plus me not being Catholic or religious limited the schools I was allowed or willing to teach at. I don't remember but some of the schools might have wanted at least an master's degree as well. I just had a BA.
After working in public schools (now in doing IT at a public school) I see what public school teachers deal with day in and day out. I just don't have the temperament.
I wouldn't mind teaching at the community college level; like an intro course, but the same things apply in Philosophy/English. High demand and flooded market demands higher level degrees.
Eh, I'm happy where I'm at now. Working for a school district and getting most of the benefits of a teacher, without the teaching.
That's very surprising. I do understand that most public will get better salaries and probably better pensions through CalPERS etc., but I would have predicted that the amount of stress dealing with pain in the ass kids would have made the average tenure shorter.
I didn't mean to mislead, so I should mention that I have taught in NYC schools for almost 28 years, not in California schools. In that time, however, I have met quite a few teachers from around the country.
I think the explanation is in two parts:
1) The first 5 years in public school tend to weed out those without the strength and will to survive the system. At that point you tend to have enough understanding and skills to manage the system. I would say about 2-3% of teachers that make it beyond the five year mark should probably not be allowed to continue. The remainder, a solid 95%, are actually able to add something to their students' lives. At the 10 year mark you really lose a lot by leaving the system so the vast majority hang on to the bitter end.
2) As mentioned previously the certification requirements and salary in private schools are not as rigorous. While there are many great teachers working in private schools, the initial investment for many is not as high as for public school teachers. By the same token, neither are the monetary rewards. Therefore, private school teachers tend not to be primary earners in their families. Some even begin their jobs knowing that once a family starts they are out for good. Again, many do go on to have long and rewarding careers in private schools. However, leaving does not entail as great a loss of salary and accrued benefits.
Intrinsic motivation in students is definitely higher in private school students leading to less resistance to learning and fewer disciplinary issues. Also, parental support and involvement is higher. A natural result of paying tuition in excess of $20,000 per year. You would expect private school teachers to hang around longer.
For me, it just goes to show that, cliched though it may be, public school teachers really are highly motivated and dedicated to their profession.
That was a long time ago. The salary was low plus me not being Catholic or religious limited the schools I was allowed or willing to teach at. I don't remember but some of the schools might have wanted at least an master's degree as well. I just had a BA.
After working in public schools (now in doing IT at a public school) I see what public school teachers deal with day in and day out. I just don't have the temperament.
I wouldn't mind teaching at the community college level; like an intro course, but the same things apply in Philosophy/English. High demand and flooded market demands higher level degrees.
Eh, I'm happy where I'm at now. Working for a school district and getting most of the benefits of a teacher, without the teaching.
You work in a public school that provides IT support!?!?! Astounding. They throw technology at us and expect us to maintain it ourselves.
LA will be warmer and sunnier than New Jersey...however, not necessarily less stressful.
LA is the second largest city in the country. If you want truly laid back try San Diego or perhaps the "south bay" part of LA County (Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach, etc.). But your budget is very low for those areas and what you are asking for in general. Unless you are ok with a roommate. Don't mean to be negative but just telling you the truth.
Yes, Craigslist for apartment hunting is good.
Finally, very hard to suggest areas for you to live without info on where you'll be teaching.
Actually LA will be a lot less stressful than suburban NJ. A lot. It's the people and the attitude that are way different...way different.
I grew up in NY and was back in NY and than NJ in 2014. Almost got run over in a crosswalk in Morristown, NJ(same exact signage we have here, means nothing there..LOL), horns honking on a Saturday morning in the supermarket parking lot. When's the last time that happened at Vons?
Just a few examples. Very unpleasant for the most part.
LA definitely has traffic and stress, but it's not close to how people in the northeast act. It's impossible not to notice the difference. I have always found people in Southern CA to be friendlier and in general better manners than back east.
What cities/neighborhoods would you all recommend for a 27 y.o teacher? I would be living by myself. I would like to live in a place that safe but affordable (1,100 max rent), has a nice community of people, diverse, pet friendly and not too busy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myra88
I would be open to looking outside of LA county as long as I am close to entertainment.
You are actually asking for a lot. You are young and single and want entertainment, yet you seem to also want the safety and slower pace of suburban life. The two usually don't go together. A pet adds another level of complexity in renting.Your budget is low by about $500 not only for LA but even for neighboring counties.How far away are you willing to go?
Actually LA will be a lot less stressful than suburban NJ. A lot. It's the people and the attitude that are way different...way different.
I grew up in NY and was back in NY and than NJ in 2014. Almost got run over in a crosswalk in Morristown, NJ(same exact signage we have here, means nothing there..LOL), horns honking on a Saturday morning in the supermarket parking lot. When's the last time that happened at Vons?
Just a few examples. Very unpleasant for the most part.
LA definitely has traffic and stress, but it's not close to how people in the northeast act. It's impossible not to notice the difference. I have always found people in Southern CA to be friendlier and in general better manners than back east.
Well, I grew up in the LA area but lived for several years in the northeast (NYC area & DC). I am familiar with N.J.
I agree that generally speaking you get a better attitude on the roads in LA than N.J. (less honking, more considerate to pedestrians, etc.). Factor in the balmy, sunny and (mostly) dry weather and that does make driving less stressful and more pleasant. But traffic is traffic....and distances in LA can be vast. Just don't want the OP to get a false sense that he/she will be on a relaxed beach vacation 24/7 in LA.
You are actually asking for a lot. You are young and single and want entertainment, yet you seem to also want the safety and slower pace of suburban life. The two usually don't go together. A pet adds another level of complexity in renting.Your budget is low by about $500 not only for LA but even for neighboring counties.How far away are you willing to go?
Hi,
I'm not sure if you read my lastest comment. Everyone has made it very clear the points that you are making. Hence, my comment: I will continue my research.
Thanks!
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