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Old 04-18-2016, 01:05 AM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,351,854 times
Reputation: 5262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KazChasey View Post
This law is just another example of what this country is becoming - a bunch of losers banding together to bring everyone down to their level.

If you're not making enough money to survive then better yourself. If you can't then you don't deserve to survive. Simple as that. Winners care about thriving while losers care about surviving.

You're not making a living wage because you suck. Your attitude sucks. Your skills suck. Your life choices suck. You suck. Accept your suckitude and either stop sucking or go jump off a bridge.
Such a severe lack of self-awareness is... bracing.
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:52 AM
 
865 posts, read 593,736 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Correct. You did not say high paying jobs. Jm encouraged that all who labor lowly should be setting their sights lofty - like Hillary! And you enjoin the mythology that there is something "low class" about low paying employment. It is a snotty attitude, frankly, that associates personal worth with profession or lack thereof. Your posts reek of this commonplace arrogance, failing to acknowledge that an individual's "worth" is a far deeper and more complex concept than income level.

Your rags to riches personal claims of sweat and sacrifice are all about getting the big paycheck. Frankly unimpressive as your total lack of graciousness and understanding of the role of even luck in every person's life could not be more apparent.

Examples of luck? They can range from race, socio-economic background, who you know or met along the paths of life, being born with certain talents and propensities, born with a natural outgoing personality, and yes, even being born with a higher intellect level than some others. Which of those and a longer list than I care to rattle off is the case for you to have brought you financial success, I wouldn't know. But it is clear you lack psychological insight to life and a true grasp of the meaning of "worth".
Boy, you read too much into things. "Low class?" Where was that even stated? "Getting the big paycheck?" Did I write that? Assumptions gone wild! Some people make choices and just settle for minimum wage. Others strive for bigger and better things. If there is a will, there is a way. That is all. I'm out because the mudslinging has just started. Peace.

Last edited by 3shipguy; 04-18-2016 at 05:01 AM..
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:28 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,325 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3shipguy View Post
Boy, you read too much into things. "Low class?" Where was that even stated? "Getting the big paycheck?" Did I write that? Assumptions gone wild! Some people make choices and just settle for minimum wage. Others strive for bigger and better things. If there is a will, there is a way. That is all. I'm out because the mudslinging has just started. Peace.
No. I didn't read too much into what you have been writing at all. Your entire orientation is as highlighted above. Every post of yours reeks of judgemental classism, and that totally oriented to money as the benchmark to attain.

You fail entirely to grasp that not everyone is competitive - and that, even for those who might be, not all are capable of being "winners" by your definition. You fail to grasp that among those who don't rise to your approval are many who have no interest in defining themselves by a career of laboring for the benefit of business masters. There are artists. There are simple philosophers. There are parents and grandparents whose total focus and joys in life are their homes and families. There are surfers and outdoor enthusiasts who delight in a relationship with nature. And literally millions of others with other priorities than what you admire and aspire to. These are also people. People who often contribute to society through participation in organizations and volunteerism. Many many many people who don't want to, or cannot, successfully compete for what you define as "bigger and better" careers and advancement. People who accept modest work at low pay to carve out a basic survival that allows them to place their energies outside the world of business.

If it's "Peace" you truly wish for all, time to search your heart for the nature of peace.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County
11,064 posts, read 8,986,001 times
Reputation: 29009
So let's let the market determine what everyone is worth except those worth less than $15, then we will have to agree that those worth less than $15 are equally as valuable as those previously making $15.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:10 AM
 
865 posts, read 593,736 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
No. I didn't read too much into what you have been writing at all. Your entire orientation is as highlighted above. Every post of yours reeks of judgemental classism, and that totally oriented to money as the benchmark to attain.

You fail entirely to grasp that not everyone is competitive - and that, even for those who might be, not all are capable of being "winners" by your definition. You fail to grasp that among those who don't rise to your approval are many who have no interest in defining themselves by a career of laboring for the benefit of business masters. There are artists. There are simple philosophers. There are parents and grandparents whose total focus and joys in life are their homes and families. There are surfers and outdoor enthusiasts who delight in a relationship with nature. And literally millions of others with other priorities than what you admire and aspire to. These are also people. People who often contribute to society through participation in organizations and volunteerism. Many many many people who don't want to, or cannot, successfully compete for what you define as "bigger and better" careers and advancement. People who accept modest work at low pay to carve out a basic survival that allows them to place their energies outside the world of business.

If it's "Peace" you truly wish for all, time to search your heart for the nature of peace.
Boy, you know me better than I do. Peace out. Don't blow a blood vessel.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,325 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3shipguy View Post
Boy, you know me better than I do. Peace out. Don't blow a blood vessel.
Yes, I do. And thanks for your concern about my cardio-vascular system. It has seen me through multiple tours of combat, raised a family, and plowed through over 30 years of self employment. I'm thinking that with typical blood pressure readings of 115/72 it's going to carry me through your posts as well.

Peace indeed. Seriously.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,163 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367
"There are artists. There are simple philosophers. There are parents and grandparents whose total focus and joys in life are their homes and families. There are surfers and outdoor enthusiasts who delight in a relationship with nature. And literally millions of others with other priorities than what you admire and aspire to."

That's great and all. But are we supposed to subsidize every armchair philosopher or wannabe 'artist' , surfer and outdoor enthusiasts.
Also great if people want to be parents and grandparents...but last I checked some people were having kids and grandkids but still supporting themselves.

I think people CAN and SHOULD strive to do better...you think people should just accept being stuck and remaining in the status quo.
Also what does being a surfer or outdoor enthusiast,etc have to do with anything?
Plenty plenty financially successful people are into surfing and outdoor hobbies too..and they can afford the best gear money can by when they enjoy those things.

And more important than money (in my opinion) is that wealth can buy one time too.
Even if it just means having the time to enjoy a walk in the middle of a work day because you don't have to be at that minimum wage job.

I think it's terrible and uninspiring to tell people "Oh don't worry, just stay in your minimum wage job ..that's the best place for you.."

If someone is working minimum wage and loves their job, that's great. I'm sure there are a few...but if they don't.
Giving them a raise isn't the solution...it's to get them to find something else to do.
That can be learning a skill, getting a degree, starting their own business ,etc.

People working min wage today (2016) shouldn't be saying "Yay I'm going to be making $15 hr at the fast food place I work at in 4 years"
They should be saying , "Who cares what this place pays people in 4 years...I'll be done with my degree, trade school or have my own business by then!"

Do you not agree with this?
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:10 AM
 
865 posts, read 593,736 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
"There are artists. There are simple philosophers. There are parents and grandparents whose total focus and joys in life are their homes and families. There are surfers and outdoor enthusiasts who delight in a relationship with nature. And literally millions of others with other priorities than what you admire and aspire to."

That's great and all. But are we supposed to subsidize every armchair philosopher or wannabe 'artist' , surfer and outdoor enthusiasts.
Also great if people want to be parents and grandparents...but last I checked some people were having kids and grandkids but still supporting themselves.

I think people CAN and SHOULD strive to do better...you think people should just accept being stuck and remaining in the status quo.
Also what does being a surfer or outdoor enthusiast,etc have to do with anything?
Plenty plenty financially successful people are into surfing and outdoor hobbies too..and they can afford the best gear money can by when they enjoy those things.

And more important than money (in my opinion) is that wealth can buy one time too.
Even if it just means having the time to enjoy a walk in the middle of a work day because you don't have to be at that minimum wage job.

I think it's terrible and uninspiring to tell people "Oh don't worry, just stay in your minimum wage job ..that's the best place for you.."

If someone is working minimum wage and loves their job, that's great. I'm sure there are a few...but if they don't.
Giving them a raise isn't the solution...it's to get them to find something else to do.
That can be learning a skill, getting a degree, starting their own business ,etc.

People working min wage today (2016) shouldn't be saying "Yay I'm going to be making $15 hr at the fast food place I work at in 4 years"
They should be saying , "Who cares what this place pays people in 4 years...I'll be done with my degree, trade school or have my own business by then!"

Do you not agree with this?
Well said, jm. But what do we know? We're just arrogant, judgmental classists who can't understand the difference between low wage careers and transitional minimum wage jobs.
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,163 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3shipguy View Post
Well said, jm. But what do we know? We're just arrogant, judgmental classists who can't understand the difference between low wage careers and transitional minimum wage jobs.
Yes...I guess things will be much better when all the greedy,exploitative small businesses are run out of town.

Garcetti mentioned 5,000 new jobs at City Hall...not sure doing what..but maybe there is room for more and he will hire all the laid off burger flippers and garment industry workers .


The scary thing is that it looks like both of the Democrat Presidential candidates now support a $15 federal minimum wage.

Hillary Clinton is All in on the $15 Minimum Wage. Here's Why That's A Bad Thing - Hit & Run : Reason.com


Sanders has supported it for a while..but now it looks like Clinton is supporting it too in order to be more popular with voters that don't realize the implications.

It's similar to how Jerry Brown was against raising the minimum wage to $15hr in CA...but then gave in to political pressure.

The worst part is that deep down these politicians KNOW it's a bad idea but they give into it because "It's what the people want..."

Of course they will still have their jobs even if businesses fail and unemployment goes up..
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:39 AM
 
865 posts, read 593,736 times
Reputation: 1284
It has been a great discussion, jm--well until the insults started flying anyway. Peace out.
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