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Old 06-11-2018, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,206 posts, read 13,710,461 times
Reputation: 11399

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
So you're saying that people start businesses to lose money?

Your statements make no sense. Any full time job should pay enough for someone to be able to survive in the locale that the business exists. A business that survives because it underpays it's employees is a failure and should be shut down.
The idea that businesses have a right to exist at any cost is ridiculous. Expecting that a segment of the working population should accept insufficient income so that a business can survive is pure foolishness.
What is “enough “ ?
One could argue that $15 hr isn’t “enough” to live in L.A

Businesses aren’t “underpaying” employees . The employer offers a wage and the employee is agreeing to that wage .
The employee can increase this salary by increasing their skills and education providing more value to the employer.
Or they can start their own business or they can work as an independent contractor. Uber drivers for example are all independent contractors . They don’t make a minimum wage or hourly wage . They don’t have to accept every request and make their own schedules.

You have an anti business attitude but without the businesses these employees don’t have a job .
Should we only allow businesses like tech companies to open ?

Insufficient income ? Again this is relative . There are people making $100,000 up to the millions that say their income is inefficient.

Again the wage is based on the economic value that the employee provides for the business /organization

Pretty much everyone has the skills to be a cashier so the wage is low . Very few have the skills /education to be a brain surgeon so the wage is very high .

This has nothing to do with how good or decent a person is . There are min wage workers that are amazing and nice people and surgeons that that bad people and vice versa .

The important thing to recognize is that in America people to have to stay in the same job forever.
The richest man in the world used to flip burgers at McDonald’s but now runs Amazon.com
The company he founded .

He also learned valuable lessons working there

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/what...-teenager.html
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:03 AM
 
2,993 posts, read 885,195 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
"Free market" is another fantasy created by the 1% to give the illusion of economic equality. It's a load of crap.

Every bit of the American market is manipulated by the wealthy, the lobbyists they hire, and the politicians they buy, to their benefit.

A "burger flipper" is an essential part of a business and should be paid accordingly, as should any full time employee. Anything less is theft of services.

If a business cannot afford to pay its employees a living wage, they should get out of the way and allow someone else the chance to run a business that treats its employees fairly. Especially in a city like Los Angeles. If you are going to charge people $20 for "burger" you can afford to pay your employees AT LEAST $15 and hour.
Unless you're a greedy bastard.
The burger flipper does get paid accordingly, as it's a very low skilled job that anyone off the street can do and it pays very low for that reason. It's not the responsibility of the employer how the employee chooses to live, the employer has to live within the means of a low salary, cheap apartments, cheap food, no luxury items, don't start a family. They can pursue education and/or training to earn a better paying job is they choose.

The experiment you're proposing has already been done and it doesn't work.
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...hop-close-aft/
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:42 AM
 
16,089 posts, read 9,261,487 times
Reputation: 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
People should expect to make a living from any full time job. Just as any business owner expects to make a living from any business they run.



Your logic would be valid if workers were asking to become wealthy. They are not, they are asking to survive. The scenario you describe would be a direct result of business owner greed trying to increase profits beyond a reasonable level.



Sooooo you didn't read the article?
Nope, but I have owned many businesses over the years and I know how it works.


No one should expect to make 'living" from any full time job. Entry level jobs are for experience and should go to those who are just starting out in the job market. That experience is worth money as the owner/boss spends time and money on the training.



If you want to make a "living" define what a "living" is?
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
328 posts, read 106,219 times
Reputation: 484
$15 minimum wage will also drive up wages for everything else. Everything will get more expensive. Economics 101.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
15,832 posts, read 5,411,672 times
Reputation: 4643
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBoat View Post
$15 minimum wage will also drive up wages for everything else. Everything will get more expensive. Economics 101.
Using that argument, why don't you ask your own boss for a pay cut (if you're still working, don't know how old you are) since it should then cost him less money?
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:42 PM
 
2,993 posts, read 885,195 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Using that argument, why don't you ask your own boss for a pay cut (if you're still working, don't know how old you are) since it should then cost him less money?
The cost of living would have to go down first before that works. Adding emoticons doesn't validate your argument, only shows how confident you are in not knowing how things work.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,206 posts, read 13,710,461 times
Reputation: 11399
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelingBoat View Post
$15 minimum wage will also drive up wages for everything else. Everything will get more expensive. Economics 101.
Yeah a lot of people don’t get this .
They seem to think wages will just go up with no side effects .

Also how come no talk about how it will affect seniors ? They won’t get a raise but the cost of everything will go up .
I guess it would be one more reason for people to leave California.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:55 PM
 
16,089 posts, read 9,261,487 times
Reputation: 7172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Yeah a lot of people don’t get this .
They seem to think wages will just go up with no side effects .

Also how come no talk about how it will affect seniors ? They won’t get a raise but the cost of everything will go up .
I guess it would be one more reason for people to leave California.
They want seniors to move and then die so they can move into their house and be given money that used to go to the senior. Oh the seniors who worked for 50 or 60 years while the ones complaining have barely worked a fraction of that but want it all.


In effect: Pay me more so I can have everything I want. I deserve it as I am young, alive and want it.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
15,832 posts, read 5,411,672 times
Reputation: 4643
Quote:
Originally Posted by max210 View Post
The cost of living would have to go down first before that works. Adding emoticons doesn't validate your argument, only shows how confident you are in not knowing how things work.
I have a valid point, which guys/girls like you seem to miss, hence the emojis. EVERYONE always wants to be paid as much as possible, and the people who rally against the low wage earners wanting too much aren't themselves willing to take a pay cut at their own jobs to put their money where their mouths are....
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Old 06-11-2018, 05:07 PM
 
2,993 posts, read 885,195 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
I have a valid point, which guys/girls like you seem to miss, hence the emojis. EVERYONE always wants to be paid as much as possible, and the people who rally against the low wage earners wanting too much aren't themselves willing to take a pay cut at their own jobs to put their money where their mouths are....
Everyone wants to get paid as much as possible, but the skill of flipping a burger is abundant and the furthest thing from being specialized therefore it's not worth the $15/hr. A person has made some bad mistakes if they're in a situation where they are trying to raise a family and have luxuries on a zero skill job flipping signs to the newest housing tract. And I see it all the time, it's called ghetto fabulous.

Even Tod Shaw said
"Get your kids in school, so they can get an education
Get a degree, and take a vacation"
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