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Old 04-18-2016, 10:12 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,393 posts, read 6,405,498 times
Reputation: 8652

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
It does appeal to simple folk..because a lot of 'simple folk' rely on small businesses for their paychecks.
There's a saying , "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
People that work for a business, but have an anti-business attitude are doing exactly that.

What's better for workers, have more options of businesses to work for or less?
If you have people that have been working in the L.A apparel industry for years and years and that industry goes away...do you think that's good for those 30,000 employees?
That's exactly why people should not be anti-business and indifferent to business leaving an area.

Nothing is guaranteed to stay the same economically in an area.
Detroit was once the WEALTHIEST city in America. In the 1960s Detroit was the 4th largest city in America by population. Now their spot has been taken by Houston,TX. They are now #18 in population size.
Guess the main reason why? Lot's of those businesses closed...and the people moved!


This is a history lesson that things can change in any city. Having that attitude of "Oh it's no big deal, people will always want to do business here" is a dangerous one. I'm sure at the time tons of people had that attitude in Detroit .
Yes. Don't bite the hand that takes advantage of not only you but the welfare system as well. Right. Just bend over and take it.

Because Detroit is a sub-tropical seaport with perhaps the planet's most appealing climate that probably more people in the world want to live in than anywhere else?
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:24 AM
 
Location: 10110001010110100
6,263 posts, read 10,341,336 times
Reputation: 5412
All I can say is, there is no effing way I'm gonna drop 20% tip if the server is already making $15 /hr.
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
Reputation: 11423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Yes. Don't bite the hand that takes advantage of not only you but the welfare system as well. Right. Just bend over and take it.

Because Detroit is a sub-tropical seaport with perhaps the planet's most appealing climate that probably more people in the world want to live in than anywhere else?
Taking advantage of? How?
If someone is working and not getting paid what they were told they would get paid, that's taking advantage of.
Or if someone is being made to work against their will.
In those cases I say YES the business owner should be punished and is doing something illegal.

But you are talking about a mutual agreement where an employer offered a salary, and the employee signed on the dotted line and accepted that salary.
If two people over 18 years old mutually consent to sex would you define that as rape as well?..

The second part of your statement proves my point about your arrogance that "people will ALWAYS want to do business here!"

There are places in the world where the weather is nice..but the economy is not so nice.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,382 posts, read 79,577,446 times
Reputation: 38711
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurcoLoco View Post
All I can say is, there is no effing way I'm gonna drop 20% tip if the server is already making $15 /hr.
apparently servers in the state of Washington are finding this the case. Our daughter just got back from a few days in Seattle she mentioned this. She read an article about the subject in one of the newspapers. As consumers we can only be stretched so far. The server will really feel the lack of tipping. We all know, they do not pay tax on all their tips, just a portion. Now, if they make $15 an hour they will be paying tax on their hourly wage and making a lot less tax free money.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:58 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,393 posts, read 6,405,498 times
Reputation: 8652
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Taking advantage of? How?
If someone is working and not getting paid what they were told they would get paid, that's taking advantage of.
Or if someone is being made to work against their will.
In those cases I say YES the business owner should be punished and is doing something illegal.

But you are talking about a mutual agreement where an employer offered a salary, and the employee signed on the dotted line and accepted that salary.
If two people over 18 years old mutually consent to sex would you define that as rape as well?..

The second part of your statement proves my point about your arrogance that "people will ALWAYS want to do business here!"

There are places in the world where the weather is nice..but the economy is not so nice.
Jm, if one adult is in a position to take advantage of another's desperation - especially at the expense of the government (forcing a welfare situation) - yes, I do call it rape. And the relationship doesn't have to be sexual.

Ths isn't a question of being made to work against one's will. Minimum wage workers aren't at all unwilling to work. It is an issue of being forced to turn to welfare for support because one's wages are insufficient to pay the most basic costs of living. That is rape. If these minimum wage workers had any alternative do you think they would work these minimum wage jobs?

As to the LA potential for demise due to minimum wage - lmao. Do tell us where in the world has achieved the heights of modern civilized success that LA has that later slipped into demise like Detroit? Great weather or not.

Waiting.

Still waiting.

Okay now add the weather.

Waiting.

Still waiting ...
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,393 posts, read 6,405,498 times
Reputation: 8652
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
As consumers we can only be stretched so far. The server will really feel the lack of tipping. We all know, they do not pay tax on all their tips, just a portion. Now, if they make $15 an hour they will be paying tax on their hourly wage and making a lot less tax free money.
roflmao. You're kidding right? Do ya pay more now for things than you did five years ago? Ten years back? How about 15? 20? You're stretched further and further by the week.
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Old 04-20-2016, 02:00 AM
 
5,407 posts, read 5,663,008 times
Reputation: 2395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
It does appeal to simple folk..because a lot of 'simple folk' rely on small businesses for their paychecks.
There's a saying , "Don't bite the hand that feeds you"
People that work for a business, but have an anti-business attitude are doing exactly that.

What's better for workers, have more options of businesses to work for or less?
If you have people that have been working in the L.A apparel industry for years and years and that industry goes away...do you think that's good for those 30,000 employees?
That's exactly why people should not be anti-business and indifferent to business leaving an area.

Nothing is guaranteed to stay the same economically in an area.
Detroit was once the WEALTHIEST city in America. In the 1960s Detroit was the 4th largest city in America by population. Now their spot has been taken by Houston,TX. They are now #18 in population size.
Guess the main reason why? Lot's of those businesses closed...and the people moved!


This is a history lesson that things can change in any city. Having that attitude of "Oh it's no big deal, people will always want to do business here" is a dangerous one. I'm sure at the time tons of people had that attitude in Detroit .
This country also used to have a lot more small to medium mom and pop businesses. Those are now mostly gone. You have to address the issue of why and what began the trend we currently have. Which no one is doing.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
Reputation: 11423
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
This country also used to have a lot more small to medium mom and pop businesses. Those are now mostly gone. You have to address the issue of why and what began the trend we currently have. Which no one is doing.
Actually there are a lot (millions) of small businesses in L.A and CA that's why this min wage hike will be so devastating to the economy.

A lot of people don't realize how many small independently owned family (or mom and pop) businesses there actually are here. The big national or global chains like McD's get all the attention in the press.

California has over 3.6 MILLION small businesses with over 6 MILLION employees...When the Pro $15 crowd says this will just effect ' a few or handful' of businesses I realize they are out of touch..
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fi...02014-15_0.pdf
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:13 PM
 
5,407 posts, read 5,663,008 times
Reputation: 2395
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Actually there are a lot (millions) of small businesses in L.A and CA that's why this min wage hike will be so devastating to the economy.

A lot of people don't realize how many small independently owned family (or mom and pop) businesses there actually are here. The big national or global chains like McD's get all the attention in the press.

California has over 3.6 MILLION small businesses with over 6 MILLION employees...When the Pro $15 crowd says this will just effect ' a few or handful' of businesses I realize they are out of touch..
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fi...02014-15_0.pdf
Are we defining small business by how many employees, or how much revenue they bring in?

I work for a small business also, but it is quite lucrative and will not have problems paying me and the only other person working here full time even more than $15.

How many of them small businesses is actually a tiny boutique venture capital firm with just two bookkeepers?

Or an electrician or plumber that is just husband and wife?
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:29 PM
 
16,533 posts, read 17,592,629 times
Reputation: 23670
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Actually American Apparel paid above minimum wage. Could have been part of their downfall too.
American Apparel | Fashionable Basics. Sweatshop Free. Made in USA.
They also offered their employees company subsidized health care.

I stand corrected on the illegal hire and substandard treatment.

Most likely what will happen is that the businesses that will stay will be the ones that are likely to hire more skilled workers with degrees.
For example if you run an electrician business you are probably paying your employees a lot more than $15 hr right now anyways. So those types of businesses won't be affected.

When I ran my business I think the front office girl was making $15 a hour. And this was 10 years ago. Yeah I paid my people well. Either that or I pay it in taxes. I had great employees who deserved the pay.

I just think it's dangerous to blow off the significance of something like entire industries like small restaurants or the garment district.

Possibly. All that happens is there is a void. Which will be filled by another company

I know an argument has been "Oh well big deal, the garment district has been going away anyways"
At least one poster on this forum has had that attitude.

It's actually a multi BILLION dollar industry in L.A with 30,000 employees.

I think people should think twice before they say that losing this industry would be no big deal..
Not sure about you guys...but I think a $10 BILLION dollar industry is pretty significant and we shouldn't be be so indifferent about it leaving..

Ok so what's the answer? Subsidize?
____
The District is an economic engine that averages $10 billion a year in annual business volume and employees almost 30,000. In the past three years, the District has experienced unprecedented growth and development, from new wholesale centers and retail storefronts to adaptive reuse residential projects.

At the core of the District is a $6 billion wholesale industry. In the over 1,200 designers showrooms of the district over, 4,500 lines are represented at each of the five market weeks held annually. Over 53,000 buyers and exhibitors visit the district annually resulting in over $13 million in annual revenues tied to market weeks held in the district.
LA Fashion District
My response in bold
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