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Old 04-20-2016, 09:26 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,351,138 times
Reputation: 5262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
This prediction in spite of the fact that what you suggest will happen has not anywhere else in the world that pays even much higher wages.
JM has an agenda and he's pushing it, in the face of the facts. The increasing cost of living is not in any way tied to the minimum wage but that doesn't seem to matter to the people who think everyone on minimum wage deserves to suffer. And that's what it's about. All of the data shows that increased wages means more economic growth and more jobs because the people on the lower rungs of the economic spectrum spend 90-110% of what they earn.
But there's an inherent classism and racism at play in the opposition, in addition to ignorance of reality. A single example of a small business facing potential hardship is all the evidence they need. Remember "Joe the Plumber," who was in fact not a business owner or even a plumber? Pay no mind to the fact that small businesses benefit just as much as everyone else when the economy is strong. It's like the Southern yokels who rage against welfare and food stamps while they themselves collect welfare and food stamps, because it's those other people(wink wink) who don't deserve them. The people on minimum wage(wink wink) don't deserve to make enough money to live on. Those people(wink wink) need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps and work harder, because everyone knows that the harder you work the more money you make.
All the rhetoric about increased minimum wage leading to skyrocketing prices on goods and services is total bunk. All the talk about $10 Big Macs and such was complete fabrication. When actual economists crunched the numbers they found it would cost companies like McDonald's additional pennies per burger/product, not dollars, singular or plural. McDonald's executives make several times more than all McDonald's managers and supervisors combined, so how could a raise for hourly workers be unjustifiable but the executive's salaries are justified? Those executives don't work any harder than the people flipping burgers, and I thought it was all about hard work?

In reality, employee pay is generally not the major expense for businesses. Not even close. I own a shop here in LA with 4 full-time employees and 2-6 part-time employees, depending on specific circumstances. I spend roughly about $15,000 a month to pay my employees. But I spend about $75,000-$100,000 a month on product, bills, additional parking spots for customers, etc. Sometimes, depending on what products launch, I'll spend a whole lot more than that. And I would be paying ~$13,000 a month in rent if I didn't own the shop. And I pay my employees, even the part-timers, well above minimum wage.
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:40 PM
 
5,392 posts, read 5,638,461 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
J

In reality, employee pay is generally not the major expense for businesses. Not even close. I own a shop here in LA with 4 full-time employees and 2-6 part-time employees, depending on specific circumstances. I spend roughly about $15,000 a month to pay my employees. But I spend about $75,000-$100,000 a month on product, bills, additional parking spots for customers, etc. Sometimes, depending on what products launch, I'll spend a whole lot more than that. And I would be paying ~$13,000 a month in rent if I didn't own the shop. And I pay my employees, even the part-timers, well above minimum wage.
That depends on the business though. Do you not have to provide any kind of benefits to your employees?
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:44 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,351,138 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
That depends on the business though. Do you not have to provide any kind of benefits to your employees?
I don't have to, but I do. Healthcare through the ACA and paid time off.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,370 posts, read 25,567,363 times
Reputation: 19641
While we are at it. Why not just increase the minimum wage to $30 an hour? I don't see how $15 an hour will help anyone. Why wait for that to happen. Why not raise the minimum wage right now to $30 an hour. You know what. I am thinking lets give everyone a good life and increase it to $50 an hour.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,147 posts, read 13,668,407 times
Reputation: 11353
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
While we are at it. Why not just increase the minimum wage to $30 an hour? I don't see how $15 an hour will help anyone. Why wait for that to happen. Why not raise the minimum wage right now to $30 an hour. You know what. I am thinking lets give everyone a good life and increase it to $50 an hour.
Right, as that article I have cited mentions someone needs to make $33hr to afford the average apartment in L.A..

Actually we already see from places that have already had significant increases like in the Bay Area, people are still struggling...still commuting far to their jobs because they can't afford to live closer...and they are paying more for things because prices have gone up.

If college educated people with 'good jobs' can't afford L.A and are moving elsewhere how can people expect minimum wagers to easy afford L.A with one minimum wage job?...

It's pretty interesting how people don't make the connection that if you make things difficult to small business owners that employ minimum wage workers...maybe they will decide to stop doing business in the area...AND the area will become less attractive for new businesses that employ minimum wage workers.

It's ALSO going to make things more difficult for people that run business that don't employ minimum wage workers. Think office jobs where people might be making $15hr or less to do filing or answer phones,etc.
You think they are going to continue working for $15hr?
Then that place even though they aren't a fast food place has to raise their prices to pay more in labor.
This is how inflation and the price of everything rises.
Too many people just aren't seeing this all the way through
It's just ... "L.A is expensive , min wage workers deserve to get paid more"
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:16 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,307 posts, read 6,371,527 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
While we are at it. Why not just increase the minimum wage to $30 an hour? I don't see how $15 an hour will help anyone. Why wait for that to happen. Why not raise the minimum wage right now to $30 an hour. You know what. I am thinking lets give everyone a good life and increase it to $50 an hour.
It's called B.I.G. Basic Income Guarantee. An economic model agreed upon by many consevative, liberal, and libertarian economists around the world. It will replace all welfare. Eliminate homelessness and hunger. It is the future. Coming to a country near you. Soon.

Quote:
The Finnish government is currently drawing up plans to introduce a national basic income. A final proposal won’t be presented until November 2016, but if all goes to schedule, Finland will scrap all existing benefits and instead hand out 800 euros per month—to everyone.

It’s hugely important that everyone, simply as of right (whether you call it the right of residence or citizenship is up to you), gets this payment. As is also that it’s not taxable, nor is it conditional.

Imagine this: as you’re worried about how to pay bills and make your rent, you get a check from the government for $876. Every month.

That’s what Finland is doing. The Nordic nation is getting closer this month to finalizing a solution to poverty: paying each of its 5.4 million people $876 tax-free a month — and in return, it will do away with welfare benefits, unemployment lines, and the other bureaucracy of its extensive social safety net.

Charles Murray (in his book In Our Hands) did the math for the US: $10,000 a year to each adult over 21. It works. We spend about the same amount we currently do on welfare providing it. Chris Dillow, the thinking man’s Marxist, has pointed to similar studies for the UK suggesting 130 a week works.
Forbes Welcome
Canada experimenting now.
Switzerland.
Many more countries around the globe experimenting and planning now.

The US will follow:

http://www.usbig.net/whatisbig.php

Last edited by Tulemutt; 04-21-2016 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:22 AM
 
9,271 posts, read 4,734,254 times
Reputation: 6014
Fire them all. $15 is not enough, $21 is not enough, $33 will not be enough.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: 10110001010110100
6,256 posts, read 10,326,760 times
Reputation: 5407
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
While we are at it. Why not just increase the minimum wage to $30 an hour? I don't see how $15 an hour will help anyone. Why wait for that to happen. Why not raise the minimum wage right now to $30 an hour. You know what. I am thinking lets give everyone a good life and increase it to $50 an hour.
Why not we focus on distributing the wealth among citizens more fairly? Why does the 1% holds so much of the nations wealth where average citizen is financially being pushed into poverty level more and more each day?

Oh wait, that would be too much like a socialist country and US of A is certainly not one.
Perhaps Capitalism is not the most ideal, at least not any more? Government got too big and corrupt for its own good, corporations and linked %.001 is running the show.
After all, aren't those naturally the ones taking full advantage of this government regime?
The ones we loathe, the %1ers or more accurately %.001ers, are constantly benefiting more and more while the rest suffers more and more or am I wrong?

So, instead of minimally increasing the income of the lowest group and creating an imbalance with the rest of the %99.999, why don't we focus on lowering the inflation instead which would in its core mean, everyone except the %.001ers be benefiting on a long-term.

Then again, I don't have a good education or understanding of economy or politics so I might be totally off! I am hoping I am.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,307 posts, read 6,371,527 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Right, as that article I have cited mentions someone needs to make $33hr to afford the average apartment in L.A..

Actually we already see from places that have already had significant increases like in the Bay Area, people are still struggling...still commuting far to their jobs because they can't afford to live closer...and they are paying more for things because prices have gone up.

If college educated people with 'good jobs' can't afford L.A and are moving elsewhere how can people expect minimum wagers to easy afford L.A with one minimum wage job?...

It's pretty interesting how people don't make the connection that if you make things difficult to small business owners that employ minimum wage workers...maybe they will decide to stop doing business in the area...AND the area will become less attractive for new businesses that employ minimum wage workers.

It's ALSO going to make things more difficult for people that run business that don't employ minimum wage workers. Think office jobs where people might be making $15hr or less to do filing or answer phones,etc.
You think they are going to continue working for $15hr?
Then that place even though they aren't a fast food place has to raise their prices to pay more in labor.
This is how inflation and the price of everything rises.
Too many people just aren't seeing this all the way through
It's just ... "L.A is expensive , min wage workers deserve to get paid more"
It's pretty interesting that some people who chatter on and on about this have no concept of how modern economics works. For instance that inflation is a necessary part of healthy economic growth. That government debt is also and is not intended to be be paid off or even significantly down because our entire monetary supply system is built on creating money out of only one path: debt.

Yes, jm, everything continually goes up in price. That's how the system you love to embrace thrives. Positive change and growth are entirely dependent on you continually paying higher and higher prices.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,147 posts, read 13,668,407 times
Reputation: 11353
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurcoLoco View Post
Why not we focus on distributing the wealth among citizens more fairly? Why does the 1% holds so much of the nations wealth where average citizen is financially being pushed into poverty level more and more each day?

Oh wait, that would be too much like a socialist country and US of A is certainly not one.
Perhaps Capitalism is not the most ideal, at least not any more? Government got too big and corrupt for its own good, corporations and linked %.001 is running the show.
After all, aren't those naturally the ones taking full advantage of this government regime?
The ones we loathe, the %1ers or more accurately %.001ers, are constantly benefiting more and more while the rest suffers more and more or am I wrong?

So, instead of minimally increasing the income of the lowest group and creating an imbalance with the rest of the %99.999, why don't we focus on lowering the inflation instead which would in its core mean, everyone except the %.001ers be benefiting on a long-term.

Then again, I don't have a good education or understanding of economy or politics so I might be totally off! I am hoping I am.
Distributing the wealth among citizens more fairly?
And who is going to be in charge of that?
The same government which you admit is corrupt?

See that's the problem with the issue.

I agree with you that corporations and the ultra high net worth individuals have unprecedented influence on politicians via donations, lobbyists. Citizens United should be overturned.
I think most people seem to agree with that except for the lobbyists and wealthy and politicians that benefit from big fat campaign donations that benefit from Citizens United.

Of course increasing the minimum wage to $15 is an attempt at wealth redistribution...the only problem is a lot of the small business owners it will affect. Mom and pop small businesses aren't even wealthy...
This hurts the small family owned businesses more than the multinational chains like McD's , Carls Jr etc
Even if all their California stores closed..they would still have business in the rest of the country..
Even if all their U.S.A stores closed..they would still have their stores in China,Europe,Middle East,ETC

The best way to create opportunities for all people is to have a strong education system with an emphasis on marketable job skills and less restrictions and red tape to open and run a businesses.
Government meddling in private business and trying to redistribute wealth is not the answer.
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