California minimum wage hike hits L.A. apparel industry: 'The exodus has begun' (Los Angeles: living in, restaurant)

[jm1982]

I thought you found pleasure in proving the stupid non- Socialists wrong

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

You do what you have to do in your retirement time. Have fun with that. I often think it is interesting though that so many are coming here to the USA in anyway they can get here, be it legally or by braking the law just so they can participate in the American experience. Still we have so many that want to paint a nice picture of Socialism around the world.

Tell me what say you of Greece? What say you of Venezuela? What say you of Cuba?

What is interesting to note about Cuba is that while the nation as a whole is broke and no one has any money, the family that fought against wealth and privilege, the family that took over Cuba, the Castro family are very wealthy. Fidel has a net worth of $900 million while his brother Raul has a net worth of $100 million.

[jm1982]

Right same thing in many other socialist countries . In America at least our leaders are usually pretty wealthy before they get into office , not because they are in office .

The way these socialist " for the people leaders " get so wealthy is the personally own or are partners with any business doing business there .
Of course they pretend like they don't have a piece of it , but they do .
It's very lucrative to run a socialist or communist nation

I don't want to be in a country where a business has to be friends with Obama or Clinton or sanders in order to be allowed to do business .

[ChristinePlovesME]

You post too much......get a life

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Unemployment rates in many European nations are horrific...
Are you kidding me?

Greece 24%, Spain 20.4%, Italy 11.7%, France 10.2%
• Unemployment rate in EU countries 2016 | Statistic

Is that what the U.S should aspire to?...be more like Europe?..

Take a look at the link above.

People have some kind of fantasy of socialism and communism being such a great thing in theory, but there aren't any good examples of it working in the real world. Never have been.

With all these countries you see a lot of corruption and the politicians and their friends get super rich , while the masses suffer. I agree that there is corruption in the U.S with big companies influencing politicians with donations,etc...but these countries take it to a whole new level.
Look at North Korea, Russia,etc. Study their history and their present.

North Korea: Kim Jong-un buys armoured Mercedes worth up to £1.2m

North Korea's Kim Jong Un Buys More Luxury Goods Than His Father: UN Report

Wake up!

What on earth? Why not list all countries in Europe instead of just a handful that fit your narrative? Germany, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Switzerland, the U.K., Malta, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Moldova, Kazakstan, Estonia, Andorra, Azerbaijan, all below the unemployment rate here in the US. Even Russia is just the same as here.

There are plenty of examples of democratic socialist countries working very well indeed.

As to your examples of places like Greece and Spain - yeah? So what? Various countries struggle for lots of reasons. Overwhelming immigration pressures. Overwhelming assumption of debt that exceeds economic output's ability to meet service interest. Ethnic or other ideological pressures and demands. I said before, if you want to cite failure of socially progressive policies, be specific in your evidence and proof. Correlation is not causation, jm.

Corruption? What's new in the history of the world about corruption under any system?

[NOIGUY]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Well, not exactly. What you should do is read your own link. Because it says, as I did, that the USSR was a communist regime. Go ahead. Read it. "Founded on Marx's socialist principles."

Let's read the entire paragraph from which you quoted, shall we?


And more from your link:

And from another link from that same source:



Ummm, what?


In any case, we aren't discussing pure Socialism or Communism. We are discussing socially progressive policies which are becoming more and more the norm of the developed, urbanized world. By necessity. My observation of this is just that: observation. I am not preaching any ideology. I am not an ideologue.

I don't agree with you about the USSR being a socialist regime or not, but this is clearly not on topic.

Socialism is about who controls the means of production in a country, not whether CA has a $15 minimum wage or whether workers get 5 sick days off a year.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

I thought you found pleasure in proving the stupid non- Socialists wrong

Has nothing to do with non-socialists. Has to do with rational process vs sophistry. Sophistry is the art of convicing with dialogue appealing to emption regardless of logic or truth. In other words, sophistry might argue a point that is true or false the same. It aims to achieve conviction regardless. Rational process, logic, on the other hand, is purely the pursuit of truth, relying of indisputable realities.

Most posters on this forum resort to sophistry. I am a logician.

[MordinSolus]

It's impossible to have a discussion about socialism with people who think communism and socialism are the same thing.

[NOIGUY]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

It's impossible to have a discussion about socialism with people who think communism and socialism are the same thing.

How would you even know. You've blocked everyone in this thread other than Tulemutt. rofl.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by MordinSolus

It's impossible to have a discussion about socialism with people who think communism and socialism are the same thing.

True. But then, I'm not trying to have that conversation in this thread. Just relevant to rebutt the misappropriation of the definition of socialism being applied to democratic social-progressive policies. The fact that most European nations are responsibly socially progressive does not make them true socialist. It's just guaranteed that all advancing nations will eventually have to adopt Guaranteed Income systems as AI and robotics, automation in general, continues to put populatioons out of meaningful work. Nations can't exist prosperously with 30%, 50%, 65% of their citizens incapable of paying the rent and buying food - while the elites live like royalty. The elites need consumers to create their royalty. They need these people sheltered and fed and consuming product.

I don't endorse the nonsensical stupidity of capitalist consumerism. Nor do I endorse socialism. I'm simply making rational observations.