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Old 04-19-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: So Ca
13,874 posts, read 13,545,555 times
Reputation: 11808

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Finally! A thread on this topic!
(Can we close the other seven now?)
LOL. So true.
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:51 AM
 
Location: La La Land
1,514 posts, read 1,894,333 times
Reputation: 2463
I believe this article addresses the current state of businesses and the "free market".


American Entrepreneurship: Dead or Alive?


Until people acknowledge that the mysterious 1% (or possibly .1%) are literally starving the economy of cash and that jobs are being sacrificed to profits, our problems will only get worse.

Wages and rents are the symptoms not the disease.

Slightly dated but still relevant:

Here's The Problem With Our Economy - Business Insider
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:55 AM
 
11,493 posts, read 5,551,757 times
Reputation: 5949
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTraveler2011 View Post
if you are making minimum wage past age 18 in America, you deserve to be living on the streets.

THIS IS THE EASIEST COUNTRY ON EARTH TO MAKE MONEY. LITERALLY.
WPOTY award goes to you!
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frantz Pierre View Post
$15 min wage in LA is Not enough. It has to be at least $21/hr now!

The best way to achieve this is through Worker Cooperatives. That is what I am proposing.

The two central characteristics of Worker Coops are:
1) Workers own the business, and share the profits.
2) Decision-making is democratic, generally adhering to the principle of One Worker -- One Vote.

Case Study: Yadira Fragoso, whose wages rose to $25 an hour—up from $6.25—after becoming a worker-owner at Si Se Puede, a cleaning co-op incubated by the Brooklyn-based Center for Family Life.


We can do this in LA!!

If we work together, we can do this!


"I can’t help but believe that in the future we’ll see in the United States and throughout the Western World an increasing trend toward the next logical step: employee ownership. It’s a path that befits a free people.“ –Ronald Reagan, August 3rd, 1987, 39th U.S. President
You do realize or apparently you do not, min wage was never meant to be a living wage. Min wage jobs are for people starting out in the working world, those with little education, people who only want to work a few hours a day to have some spending money or those who want a second job to supplement their income. Every time you raise the min wage the cost of doing business goes up and the cost is past on to the consumer. They pay more for services and merchandise. These are the same people who insist on raising the min wage. They are also the ones that end up losing instead of gaining.

You compare America with Denmark or Finland, that is like comparing a watermelon with a grape. I also notice, from your bio you are running for mayor How clever you are to start posting here.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:06 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,318 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
You do realize or apparently you do not, min wage was never meant to be a living wage. Min wage jobs are for people starting out in the working world, those with little education, people who only want to work a few hours a day to have some spending money or those who want a second job to supplement their income. Every time you raise the min wage the cost of doing business goes up and the cost is past on to the consumer. They pay more for services and merchandise. These are the same people who insist on raising the min wage. They are also the ones that end up losing instead of gaining.
You do realize or apparently not that the world is constantly changing? Whatever minimum wage meant 50 years ago is not what it needs to be in present times.

As for costs rising, ditto. Exactly when have costs not continuously been passed on the the consumers? That is the definition of doing business: buy low / sell high.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,318 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
WPOTY award goes to you!
WPOTY? Wildlife Photographer Of The Year?
https://www.allacronyms.com/WPOTY/Wi...er_of_the_Year
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,318 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
I believe this article addresses the current state of businesses and the "free market".


American Entrepreneurship: Dead or Alive?


Until people acknowledge that the mysterious 1% (or possibly .1%) are literally starving the economy of cash and that jobs are being sacrificed to profits, our problems will only get worse.

Wages and rents are the symptoms not the disease.

Slightly dated but still relevant:

Here's The Problem With Our Economy - Business Insider
Well, there you go.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:10 AM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
OP, actually it seems you need to earn $33hr to afford the average apartment in L.A these days
LA residents need to make $33 an hour to afford the average apartment | 89.3 KPCC

So do you think minimum wage should be $33hr?

Also your example of
"Case Study: Yadira Fragoso, whose wages rose to $25 an hour—up from $6.25—after becoming a worker-owner at Si Se Puede, a cleaning co-op incubated by the Brooklyn-based Center for Family Life. "

Well yeah...I would hope they would be making at least $25 an hour if they are an owner. Owner meaning that you also have the same responsibilities,etc as an owner.


I actually think employee owned businesses are a good idea. I know Dr Bronner's (maker of soap) operates that way.
Last time I checked employee owned businesses are nothing new and there is no law against starting one.

This is a big revelation to you that owning a business might allow one to make more money?

The reality is most people don't want to own the business. They don't want the risk and responsibility of being an owner.

There are many people that make very good money as employees and they could afford to start their own businesses..but they choose not to.
Believe it or not a lot of the big businesses around today that are household brands actually started with very little money.

For example Subway , the sandwich chain that has more location's than McDonald's was started with a small loan of $1,000.
Yes it was some years back and there is inflation,etc..but still a small amount.

A housekeeper or janitor can start a cleaning business with relatively little money. There are opportunities out there beyond remaining a minimum wage employee forever and ever.

One big thing I hate about this whole debate is that people are putting themselves as being dependent on these companies to pay them.
In L.A especially we have a lot of immigrants that came here from around the world with nothing and built their businesses in this city.
This wage hike is a slap in the face to them and other small business owners.
I just don't think the Pro $15 crowd realizes that there are more small businesses many minority owned, which will suffer far worse than the national or global chains.
That's right. I'm sure those folks that are screaming for a raise in MW would also be screaming if they had to work more than 8 hours in a day, more than 5 days in a week, and started getting calls at all hours to take care of things that the RESPONSIBILITY of ownership brings.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:13 AM
 
15,385 posts, read 8,682,121 times
Reputation: 13770
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
This will be hard for some of the less "enlightened" posters to follow but here goes:

The concept of "minimum wage" is a construct used to give businesses an excuse to underpay their employees. If you run a business in a given area you should pay your full time employees enough to be able to afford rent, food, clothing, transportation and necessary expenses for that area. Your profits are secondary to providing a LIVING wage to your employees. If you can't accomplish that, go find another way to make a living and allow someone else who can be more successful to take your place. Owning a business is not a guaranteed right. Being a business owner is no different than being an employee: if you can't cut it, move on.

Part time employees should receive the same proportionate wage for their hours.

The enemy is not the minimum wage worker asking for a few dollars to live on. The enemy is the greedy pig sucking money out of the economy for little or no input. Being a "shareholder" and demanding a business answers to you first is ludicrous. If you invest in a business you receive shares. When you sell the shares you get whatever the new value is, more or less. You took a chance. Deal with it.

Employee owned companies are a major threat to American business just as unions are deemed to be by the ignorant. They limit greed. That's a big no-no in our plutocracy.

Earning money by serving fries is more noble and useful than engaging in insider trading and basically stealing people's hard earned money, or using your ill gotten gains to "invest", manipulate the stock market and pay less tax than the fries guy.

But, since most of our fellow citizens are too ignorant to see how they are being used, the plutocrats will continue to run the show.
No, you are wrong. The purpose of a business is not, and never has been, to provide a living for someone else.

You completely lost me at "serving fries is more noble"........wow. Just wow.

I don't think it's the citizens that are the ignorant ones here.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: On the water.
10,318 posts, read 6,375,988 times
Reputation: 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
That's right. I'm sure those folks that are screaming for a raise in MW would also be screaming if they had to work more than 8 hours in a day, more than 5 days in a week, and started getting calls at all hours to take care of things that the RESPONSIBILITY of ownership brings.
And you're sure of this based on what?

Responsibility for what? is the other question. The responsibility for making a lot of money for oneself? Do you think business owners are in business because their altruistic goal is service to society? Business does serve society. But that is hardly the motivation of ownership. Businessmen and women are certainly entitled to seek their fortunes. But not at society's expense. If it's not cooperatively successful, then one side is sacrificing the other. When wages are not supportive of basic living requirements for workers they place a larger burden back on the government social services network and overall depress the economy.
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