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Old 04-20-2016, 11:43 AM
 
15,395 posts, read 8,697,016 times
Reputation: 13780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
A little naive that you think that minimum wage workers work 9-5/M-F. You would also probably be surprised to learn that many business owners DO call their employees to go in and handle problems during their off time.



You evidently see businesses as a modern form of slavery. Of course part if their purpose is to provide a living for owner and employees.
Wow at serving fries is more noble than insider trading? Honest work vs. dishonest work and that confuses you?

I wouldn't be commenting on others' ignorance if I were you.



Can't rep you, but great post. Probably a little too 3-dimensional for the 2-dimension crowd.
I believe you may be a little confused about the definition of slavery. And NO, it is NOT their purpose to provide a living for their employees. The exchange of jobs and wages GIVES that employee a living, but that is NOT the purpose.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,536,365 times
Reputation: 25856
$21 an hour? Good way to shoot ourselves in the foot. Not only would that prompt less staff - and less people employed - but we would find major increase in robotics. Don't know if others on here are aware of it, but there is high-tech effort to replace people with more robotics in fast-food restaurants, and I foresee a lot of them jumping on it.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
Reputation: 11423
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Yea, because that's the only responsibility of a business owner. Not making sure the employees are paid. Not making sure that the product sells. Not making sure that the customer is served. Not dealing with every task from keeping the lights on to collecting payments to paying bills.

Those workers that are not making enough money to support themselves are the only ones to blame for that. They either don't make enough income for their expenses, then spend more than their income, or a combination of the two. HOW an employee lives is NOT the responsibility of an employer.
Yes and at $15hr min wage workers (the ones that still have their jobs)...will still say it's tough to live in the city ..especially with higher costs to them BECAUSE of the minimum wage hike.

People at the minimum wage level..whether that's $10hr or $15hr are always going to be struggling in very high cost cities like L.A,NYC or SF.

Even college educated people with "good jobs/careers' struggle in these cities.
The idea that someone with limited skills/education is going to be able to live comfortably in these cities is just a wild fantasy.

You need to make $33 an hour to afford the average apartment in L.A
LA residents need to make $33 an hour to afford the average apartment | 89.3 KPCC

So $15 hr still won't cut it...
But I guess this means fast food workers or other min wage workers should be paid $33hr?
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I believe you may be a little confused about the definition of slavery. And NO, it is NOT their purpose to provide a living for their employees. The exchange of jobs and wages GIVES that employee a living, but that is NOT the purpose.
Yes , good point.
The employer gives the employee a paycheck, but that paycheck should not necessarily be considered their only income. The end responsibility is on the employee. The employee can end their relationship with the employer at their choosing if the rate of pay is no longer acceptable or good for them.

Many people also have additional household income , such as a spouse working as well to bring in income to the household, or they have another part time job, or increasingly people are working as independent contractors to bring in more money through Uber and other similar services.

People need to think beyond the idea of one full time job , especially a min wage job paying all their expenses.
Who is stopping a min wage worker from starting their own side business?

Thanks to the internet, people can be in business quickly with practically zero startup cost.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
Reputation: 11423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
$21 an hour? Good way to shoot ourselves in the foot. Not only would that prompt less staff - and less people employed - but we would find major increase in robotics. Don't know if others on here are aware of it, but there is high-tech effort to replace people with more robotics in fast-food restaurants, and I foresee a lot of them jumping on it.
Yup definitely. We have seen it happen in other industries too. While cars are still made in the U.S.A..the car factories have a lot less employees because of robotics.

Unfortunately , it will be the chains that will be able to afford and have the resources to implement robotics..not the mom and pop place on the corner that's been there 10,20,30 years.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:22 PM
 
Location: La La Land
1,514 posts, read 1,897,980 times
Reputation: 2463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Yea, because that's the only responsibility of a business owner. Not making sure the employees are paid. Not making sure that the product sells. Not making sure that the customer is served. Not dealing with every task from keeping the lights on to collecting payments to paying bills.

Those workers that are not making enough money to support themselves are the only ones to blame for that. They either don't make enough income for their expenses, then spend more than their income, or a combination of the two. HOW an employee lives is NOT the responsibility of an employer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I believe you may be a little confused about the definition of slavery. And NO, it is NOT their purpose to provide a living for their employees. The exchange of jobs and wages GIVES that employee a living, but that is NOT the purpose.
The only response to this is, "Says you".

We live in a society. BUSINESS is NOT the cornerstone of this country. We have social contract that many have conveniently been trained to ignore by the plutocratic influenced and controlled media.

I would say the overwhelming popularity of Bernie Sanders' platform verifies that many in this country still believe in the social contract.

To say that the rules of business, which are made up by men, should form the basis for every decision we make as members of our society is just silly.

Business has its value, and is due some level of consideration, but it is just one piece of the machine. As a society our laws should consider every member and their value and contributions.

Otherwise, the inevitable conclusion is some ridiculous blend of oligarchy and plutocracy that flies in the face of all this country stands for.
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Old 04-20-2016, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
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I think Bernie Sanders is a well intentioned and good guy..but I just feel he doesn't understand business.
He supports a nationwide $15 minimum wage, which would be devastating to many areas of the country let alone the big cities.
Do you think it's a good idea for businesses to be forced to pay fast food workers $15 an hour in parts of the country where teachers and people with college degrees don't even make that much?
I'm not talking about L.A , I'm talking about lower cost of living places in the MidWest, South,etc.

No Business is not the only thing...but we do live in a capitalist society...or at least we supposedly do.
I know that Bernie Sanders calls himself a Democratic Socialist..and it's good he's honest about the socialist part of it.
Meanwhile Hillary calls herself Democrat but she is adopting a lot of Sanders ideas and policies.

In this minimum wage debate , if people are saying that fast food workers everywhere shouldn't be paid $15hr..it's not saying these people have no value. Of course someone can be working in such a job and be a great person , good family person, generous, ethical, creative ,etc.
It's just that the skill level of the job itself has very little value.

When there is an abundance of something, the value is low.
Pretty much anyone can work at a fast food place.....while there are a lot less people that have the dedication or perhaps intelligence to become neurosurgeons.
This is why on an economic (not personal level) the neurosurgeon is worth MUCH more to an employer versus a fast food worker.
To use an analogy with cars.
A Toyota is pretty common...if you drive down the street and see a Toyota..nobody is likely to turn their heads and say "WOW...look a Toyota!" A lamborghini though , most people are going to notice it. "Wow a Lamborghini!"

Like neurosurgeons, Lamborghini's are pretty rare...there aren't that many out there.
A lot less of them are made versus Fords.

The Toyota could be a great car, reliable, gets you where you want to go ..and it works hard..but there is a certain price people are willing to pay for a Toyota. People aren't going to spend $200,000 or more on the average Toyota..like they do on the average Lamborgini.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,357,372 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by In2itive_1 View Post
I don't know how many realize how little Minimum Wage has increased over the past 40-some years, for instance, being $2.00 in the early 70's to $10.00 an hr., in CA. (Eight dollars in 46 years?) Then, Housing has always been unaffordable in CA. No wonder many have struggled... there should have been more appropriate increases over that time.
That's not true at all. Southern California was a haven for veterans and the middle class after WWII because it was affordable. Why do you think Los Angeles is the way it is? They built so many single-family homes because no one could buy them?
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,196 posts, read 2,357,372 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdy1985 View Post
Oh grow up. If you want to make more than minimum wage stop asking for government intervention. Work your ass off and make that money yourself. I have been working on average 6 to 7 days a week for the past 6 out of 7 years. Up to 14 hours a day. I'm in a very competitive field. I have no remore for those asking for handouts. No I am not rich... yet.
You live a miserable life that's all about money so that means everyone else should as well?
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,251 posts, read 13,734,429 times
Reputation: 11423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordinSolus View Post
You live a miserable life that's all about money so that means everyone else should as well?
You are right. Life isn't only about money.

But as a wise man named Zig Ziglar once said

Money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the 'gotta have it' scale.

Money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the... - Zig Ziglar at BrainyQuote
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