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Old 04-23-2016, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,162 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367

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Spike Lee?s Amazing Rant Against Gentrification -- NYMag

I found the rant here .
But just because he said some immigrants were told not to play the drums . It doesn't mean that the city outlawed drum playing . We would have to know more about it .
Its Hearsay.
Neighborhoods aren't static and they change and evolve over time . I think it's unrealistic to think a place will stay the same forever and ever. Sure people could fight change , but it seems futile . I don't think making certain groups afraid to live in an area is a good idea . I know Mexican people that lived in LA decades ago in the valley when it was farmland up until now . There were times when these neigborhoods were white majority and now they are Hispanic majority . They did suffer discrimination .
I don't think it's right that whites wanting to move into Boyle heights should suffer the same discrimination .
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:13 AM
 
368 posts, read 286,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Yeah that's why I would love to see their reaction if Canter's Deli said they were going to open up a spot in their original hometown of Boyle Heights.

And hear them shout about how "We don't eat Bagels here!"
I LOVE Canter's. Some of the finest breakfast in LA
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,162 posts, read 13,675,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsnow View Post
I LOVE Canter's. Some of the finest breakfast in LA
I haven't been for a while..and I don't think I've ever been for breakfast.but will have to try it sometime.
Remember hanging out there when I was younger, one of those places that has kind of a surreal feel to it like you stepped back in time.
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Old 04-23-2016, 10:21 AM
 
1,856 posts, read 2,038,779 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Spike Lee?s Amazing Rant Against Gentrification -- NYMag

I found the rant here .
But just because he said some immigrants were told not to play the drums . It doesn't mean that the city outlawed drum playing . We would have to know more about it .
Its Hearsay.
Neighborhoods aren't static and they change and evolve over time . I think it's unrealistic to think a place will stay the same forever and ever. Sure people could fight change , but it seems futile . I don't think making certain groups afraid to live in an area is a good idea . I know Mexican people that lived in LA decades ago in the valley when it was farmland up until now . There were times when these neigborhoods were white majority and now they are Hispanic majority . They did suffer discrimination .
I don't think it's right that whites wanting to move into Boyle heights should suffer the same discrimination .
Exactly. Latinos have moved into countless neighborhoods in LA and displaced the existing population. But when other races even begin to do the same to Latinos, its racist.
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:00 AM
 
927 posts, read 1,284,916 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Spike Lee?s Amazing Rant Against Gentrification -- NYMag

I found the rant here .
But just because he said some immigrants were told not to play the drums . It doesn't mean that the city outlawed drum playing . We would have to know more about it .
Its Hearsay.
Neighborhoods aren't static and they change and evolve over time . I think it's unrealistic to think a place will stay the same forever and ever. Sure people could fight change , but it seems futile . I don't think making certain groups afraid to live in an area is a good idea . I know Mexican people that lived in LA decades ago in the valley when it was farmland up until now . There were times when these neigborhoods were white majority and now they are Hispanic majority . They did suffer discrimination .
I don't think it's right that whites wanting to move into Boyle heights should suffer the same discrimination .
The thing is though that gentrification is not just ethnic or racial but also economical. The deeper question is probably not "why are white people moving into my barrio" but rather "where will I go if I get priced out?" If middle or upper class Hispanics were moving here and starting to price out people you would probably still get resistance from the lower class Hispanics. Also I don't think whites were being priced out of the valley as Hispanics were moving into the valley so these two scenarios are not the same.
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,162 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367
Quote:
Originally Posted by homenj View Post
The thing is though that gentrification is not just ethnic or racial but also economical. The deeper question is probably not "why are white people moving into my barrio" but rather "where will I go if I get priced out?" If middle or upper class Hispanics were moving here and starting to price out people you would probably still get resistance from the lower class Hispanics. Also I don't think whites were being priced out of the valley as Hispanics were moving into the valley so these two scenarios are not the same.

Yeah I get low income people being priced out. Middle class people of all races/ethnicities also get priced out of their neighborhoods all the time too.
You hear about it all the time, "I used to live in Santa Monica or West L.A or X area , but I had to move out to a cheaper area"

In terms of these groups they seem to be focused only on white people coming in. That seems to be pretty clear. At least that's the evidence we have seen so far. If I saw something where they stated specifically where they were upset about higher income Hispanics moving in then that would be one thing.

The valley has a lot of different neighborhoods, a lot more variety in income and housing prices versus an area like the westside.
You have pacoima,panarama city,parts of reseda ,etc more at the lower end and then you have Studio City, Sherman Oaks, Encino, Calabasas , Toluca Lake ,etc at the higher end.

I don't think many people realize there are a good amount of hispanic middle class families in the valley too.
No doubt these families are living in areas where there were once more whites. But it's less about being pushed out and more just changing demographics for different reasons.

Also in the San Gabriel Valley you have areas that were more white that have turned more asian. I don't really hear much about how whites have been pushed out higher income asians.

I think we need to stop this talk about X people being 'pushed out' by Y people with more money.
We are after all in a capitalistic society with private property rights. Also as I had mentioned previously , many hispanics and others benefit from gentrification as many are homeowners in an area. Not everyone is a recent immigrant renting a small apartment.
An increase in property value can be life changing for a family.

Also to address the question of "Where will I go?" as I mentioned there are many areas of the city that are not gentrified and will probably not be for many years or forever. Huge swaths of the valley like Panorama City , Pacoima, Arleta, Reseda.

I just don't see how one would stop gentrification or higher income people moving into an area.
Let's say Michael has owned his house for 30 years and has it paid off and he wants to sell it..
Should we put a moratorium saying he can't sell the house..he has to instead rent it to a low income family..or he has to sell it to a certain ethnic group?
I think the protestors realize this , and they are using fear and intimidation as tactics to 'scare the white people from moving in"

Prejudging someone because they are white is just as bad as prejudging someone because they are black.

I know the issue with housing is difficult because most people attach certain emotions to their home or neighborhood..but the reality is if you don't own the property ...then you ...don't own the property.

There are these sob stories about how people were living in a place for 30 years , with rent below market and now the owner wants to finally develop the property. Yeah , it can be hard to move...but what is the answer? Force the property owner to make peanuts on a property they own when they have a better opportunity?
The reality is that things are not economically fair...if we want things to be 'fair' then we have communism and we know that hasn't worked well. The people at the top always got more than their fair share...and it sucked for everyone else.
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:40 AM
 
387 posts, read 336,201 times
Reputation: 305
http://youtu.be/M0JfjIV392k

Highland Park rant/ protest against gentrification
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Old 04-23-2016, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,162 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Love Buildings View Post
http://youtu.be/M0JfjIV392k

Highland Park rant/ protest against gentrification
What do they suggest? Not allowing people to do what they want with the property THEY own?
I just don't see how you stop gentrification or slow it down without resulting to some kind of tactics that would just be very anti democratic and anti capitalist.
I know other countries governments and dictators have seized property before from the 'elites'. I know some of these groups worship communist leaders...so I guess they want to push an agenda that is similar to that.
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:06 PM
 
4,028 posts, read 8,299,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Yeah I get low income people being priced out. Middle class people of all races/ethnicities also get priced out of their neighborhoods all the time too.
You hear about it all the time, "I used to live in Santa Monica or West L.A or X area , but I had to move out to a cheaper area"

In terms of these groups they seem to be focused only on white people coming in. That seems to be pretty clear. At least that's the evidence we have seen so far. If I saw something where they stated specifically where they were upset about higher income Hispanics moving in then that would be one thing.

The valley has a lot of different neighborhoods, a lot more variety in income and housing prices versus an area like the westside.
You have pacoima,panarama city,parts of reseda ,etc more at the lower end and then you have Studio City, Sherman Oaks, Encino, Calabasas , Toluca Lake ,etc at the higher end.

I don't think many people realize there are a good amount of hispanic middle class families in the valley too.
No doubt these families are living in areas where there were once more whites. But it's less about being pushed out and more just changing demographics for different reasons.

Also in the San Gabriel Valley you have areas that were more white that have turned more asian. I don't really hear much about how whites have been pushed out higher income asians.

I think we need to stop this talk about X people being 'pushed out' by Y people with more money.
We are after all in a capitalistic society with private property rights. Also as I had mentioned previously , many hispanics and others benefit from gentrification as many are homeowners in an area. Not everyone is a recent immigrant renting a small apartment.
An increase in property value can be life changing for a family.

Also to address the question of "Where will I go?" as I mentioned there are many areas of the city that are not gentrified and will probably not be for many years or forever. Huge swaths of the valley like Panorama City , Pacoima, Arleta, Reseda.

I just don't see how one would stop gentrification or higher income people moving into an area.
Let's say Michael has owned his house for 30 years and has it paid off and he wants to sell it..
Should we put a moratorium saying he can't sell the house..he has to instead rent it to a low income family..or he has to sell it to a certain ethnic group?
I think the protestors realize this , and they are using fear and intimidation as tactics to 'scare the white people from moving in"

Prejudging someone because they are white is just as bad as prejudging someone because they are black.

I know the issue with housing is difficult because most people attach certain emotions to their home or neighborhood..but the reality is if you don't own the property ...then you ...don't own the property.

There are these sob stories about how people were living in a place for 30 years , with rent below market and now the owner wants to finally develop the property. Yeah , it can be hard to move...but what is the answer? Force the property owner to make peanuts on a property they own when they have a better opportunity?
The reality is that things are not economically fair...if we want things to be 'fair' then we have communism and we know that hasn't worked well. The people at the top always got more than their fair share...and it sucked for everyone else.
People can't ***** about what LA has become. They supported the politicians that implemented policies making LA what it is.

It will be extremely expensive going forward...at least any inner areas, with outlying suburbs being less expensive, but still more expensive than they used to be. Happened in SF, happened in NY. LA avoided it for a LONG time because there was a lot of space still to build. I still remember going to Disneyland as a kid and seeing lots of orange groves. The IE was hardly built up beyond Pomona, Ontario, and Upland. Even as few as 15 years ago there was still open, unmonitored, government sponsored shooting ranges in the San Gabriel Mountains above Azuza, Lytle Creek(near where the 15 goes by San Manuel Ampitheatre), and in Wrightwood.

But eventually the population caught up to the available land. So now there is only one way to deal with it for the poor...rent control. But that can't happen right now(new construction downtown would come to a screeching halt). Sure there are lower income units, but with average rents at $2K, I'm not sure how a $1,200K one bedroom is for lower income people. And the real rent control wont happen for some time...not until more areas have gentrified, not until Wilshire from SM to Downtown is completely gentrified for residences, and not until more rail lines are in place. As left wing as the LA City Council members are, no one is slaying the goose that lays the golden egg just yet.
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
24,162 posts, read 13,675,815 times
Reputation: 11367
Another thing is we already have a lot of experience with gentrified neighborhoods in L.A
For example Echo Park is often considered gentrified now , for a while there has been talking about the 'white people moving in' ...despite that it's still majority hispanic. After all this talk about whites and hipsters overtaking the neighborhood..the white population only increased 10%..

I also haven't heard about any bans on menudo or ranchera music.
The perception of the issue is much different than the reality of the issue.
The fears and statements of these activist groups are delusional.

What has happened in Echo Park though is that crime has gone down a lot, there is still crime but it's much better than it was.
In my opinion, this is a good thing for the hispanic majority which still lives in the neighborhood.
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