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Old 05-07-2016, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,740 posts, read 1,253,713 times
Reputation: 1722

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not really applicable. Not saying everyone needs to like California, but people like specific things wherever they chose to live. So it depends on what you are looking for. Mississippi has a much lower cost of living than California, supposedly. And I don't know anyone who lives there, the state has no major airports, no major academic centers (Mississippi universities aren't good).

Now there are people who like small town Mississippi, have family and friends there, and who would LOVE living there. So if you actually like living in a places on it's own merits (social environment, natural environment/weather, amenities, and facilities) THEN it's a good idea to live there. But move to a place just because it's got a low cost of living? Well it might be cheaper but if you don't get a job there you are still going to be homeless. There's a lot more to consider since where you live and with who will have major impacts on your long term happiness.
As I mentioned earlier to the OP and others, yes the city you move to depends on the jobs no doubt about it. I'm not advocating for people to move to a lower cost area just because it's lower cost no. I'm saying, if you could find a job in that new city and that new city is significantly less expensive to live in and your tradeoffs are weather and location, would you go? For my family and many around me who live in California, that's a definite no, no matter the cost. Now I think that's just plain stupid. Meanwhile, they're all renting a tiny house in a poor neighborhood that's about to fall apart, with 5 people all sharing the rent....
To me, there's a limit on how much I'm willing to pay for location and weather, but it's definitely NOT unlimited. Everyone loves to talk about how much they save $1 here and $1 there, but when it comes to real estate, oh here have all the money you want! Makes absolutely no sense to me. But at least I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:23 PM
 
270 posts, read 203,660 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
You don't understand that capitalism makes the entire economy go around. When a new airport is built, you don't think municipality pulls savings out of the bank do you? No, they issue BONDS. The bonds are paid back via revenues from the airport.

Regular retail stores borrow money in months of slow sales, and pay the banks and the bondholders back during the holidays and back to school pays.

In terms of people getting into debt, that's not the issue. People who make money are able to pay their debts off. That's a very different situation from a minimum wage person who racks up their credit cards and then can't pay the debt off. And I think that's what you're thinking off.

In fact easy access to loans has made the middle and upper classes of this nation. Your parents took out a mortgage on a house and paid it off? Then you inherit the house you can either LIVE in or SELL, but either way this is an investment for your family for generations potentially. Your parents took out a loan for a small business that was successful? They could have paid your college with it.

As for Ramsey, he is an idiot. People who don't buy are renters, and if you rent for decades while you could have paid a mortgage off, in old age you might be on FOOD STAMPS. Or homeless. Paying off a mortgage is also an investment in your retirement future.
LOL, easy access to loans is not capitalism, it's taxation through inflation. That money eventually circulates and becomes worth less than when it was initially borrowed. Hence, why man4857 said that it was banks making money. He's criticizing the fractional reserve banking system. A fully paid off house is paid off in name only. Fail to pay property tax, that house is gone. A person rents a house for life whether they know it or not. If someone can't afford insurance on the house and something happens, it's over. Clearly that can be avoided, but property taxes cannot. Prop 13 is the one thing I praise California for. The average American relocates every 5 years. Most people take out a 30 year mortgage. Exactly when does that become a paid off house?

I do not agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but his advice to wipe out debt has worked for plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
Same here, I'm about to finish grad school. Got a job in Phoenix, AZ that's paying me higher than what they paid me here (probably due to experience + MS) and all relocation is paid for. I'm facing 1800 to rent near my neighborhood or ~700 (to rent the equivalent type of apartment) in Phoenix. I'm renting an even nicer place in Phoenix, about 30% bigger square footage wise, better layout, laundry room, pantry, huge walk in closet, and linen closet all inside my apartment and it's in one of the safest communities in Phoenix for $900/mo including VALET TRASH! LOL. Someone takes the trash out for me! Of course I said hell with CA, I'm going to AZ. lol

I told those around me who denies reality, give me about 2 years or so and watch I'll be a homeowner easily with a house double the size of yours, twice as nice, for 1/3 the price and I can travel as much as I want to CA or where ever with the money left over.
While Nashville was awesome, I can't say Lexington, KY is as great. However, I travel a lot more for this job, so I've been able to make the best of it. I go to Japan on average 3-4 times a year for business and use my vacation days while there so I don't have to buy a plane ticket. I actually did the same thing when I had to go to San Diego for business in March. If I were in CA, I would stay there and probably never go anywhere outside of SF and Vegas and be worse off financially. This company would be located in California as we have to contact Japan a lot and it is more convenient to be on West Coast time instead of waiting late here, but all of the manufacturers moved here due to the high costs of doing business over there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not really applicable. Not saying everyone needs to like California, but people like specific things wherever they chose to live. So it depends on what you are looking for. Mississippi has a much lower cost of living than California, supposedly. And I don't know anyone who lives there, the state has no major airports, no major academic centers (Mississippi universities aren't good).

Now there are people who like small town Mississippi, have family and friends there, and who would LOVE living there. So if you actually like living in a places on it's own merits (social environment, natural environment/weather, amenities, and facilities) THEN it's a good idea to live there. But move to a place just because it's got a low cost of living? Well it might be cheaper but if you don't get a job there you are still going to be homeless. There's a lot more to consider since where you live and with who will have major impacts on your long term happiness.
LOL, we are not advocating that anyone move to a lower COL area while making less money in real income. We're talking about making LA money (or slightly less) paying lower COL prices. It's like getting a raise without costing more out of pocket. The rule of thumb is to allocate no more than 30% of your income to the rent/mortgage. At 100K, this comes out to $2500/month. If you take after tax income into account, the amount in California drops to roughly $1,700/month not taking non-standardized deductions into account. I have not lived there in a while, but my understanding is that for a safe place in LA, the average is around $2,000 for a 1 bedroom apartment. You can live in cheaper areas, but is the price of lower rent offset by the price of gasoline? If so, what happens when prices rise again (and they will) Can anyone rent out a $1,700 apartment without a roommate? I know for SF this is damn near impossible. And that's at 100K. Let's be honest, how many make 100K over there on one income?

And what does that money buy you since these days anyone making that kind of money is working well over 40 hours a week. Do they even have time to enjoy the weather outside of driving? These are the questions man4857 and myself have asked ourselves and voted with our feet. The cost of living in LA went up by $10,000 from the time I got my job in TN (April 2014 and last year when I moved to KY Mar-2015). Unless someone has a mortgage or rent control, there is no way they are going to be able to keep up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
As I mentioned earlier to the OP and others, yes the city you move to depends on the jobs no doubt about it. I'm not advocating for people to move to a lower cost area just because it's lower cost no. I'm saying, if you could find a job in that new city and that new city is significantly less expensive to live in and your tradeoffs are weather and location, would you go? For my family and many around me who live in California, that's a definite no, no matter the cost. Now I think that's just plain stupid. Meanwhile, they're all renting a tiny house in a poor neighborhood that's about to fall apart, with 5 people all sharing the rent....
To me, there's a limit on how much I'm willing to pay for location and weather, but it's definitely NOT unlimited. Everyone loves to talk about how much they save $1 here and $1 there, but when it comes to real estate, oh here have all the money you want! Makes absolutely no sense to me. But at least I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
30% is my limit and I'm not having roommates anymore. My former co-worker was making 35K outside of Nashville. He had 4 roommates paying $450/mo in rent. He moved back to CA for about 45ish and is now making 50k works 14 hour days on salary. He rents a place in a cheap area with a roommate and spends about $750/mo and says he hears gunshots every night. The things he missed about California, he does not get to enjoy because he's always working (other than no snow). I asked him why is he even still there. He says he has less in his pocket thanks to commuting and all the other costs. If he would have stuck out his first year in Nashville, he could have raised his income significantly like I did.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:59 PM
 
25,190 posts, read 18,502,610 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
As I mentioned earlier to the OP and others, yes the city you move to depends on the jobs no doubt about it. I'm not advocating for people to move to a lower cost area just because it's lower cost no. I'm saying, if you could find a job in that new city and that new city is significantly less expensive to live in and your tradeoffs are weather and location, would you go? For my family and many around me who live in California, that's a definite no, no matter the cost. Now I think that's just plain stupid. Meanwhile, they're all renting a tiny house in a poor neighborhood that's about to fall apart, with 5 people all sharing the rent....
To me, there's a limit on how much I'm willing to pay for location and weather, but it's definitely NOT unlimited. Everyone loves to talk about how much they save $1 here and $1 there, but when it comes to real estate, oh here have all the money you want! Makes absolutely no sense to me. But at least I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
If your family and friends are happy living 5 people to a house in California, more power to them. If someone is happy living on the Great Plains more power to them.

I think that for a lot of people too it's not just whether you could find a job in a new city and what the cost of living. You need to like the town itself, and that's what you aren't quite understanding. It would be a massive adjustment to go from the Bay Area to Meridian, Mississippi. Many West or East Coast people could not happy with such a move, and the only ones I could see doing it are those who have family there. And I don't mean distant cousins either.

Part of the reason why your family and friends may chose to remain in California is they'd be around people who they know, and social support networks can be extremely important.
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:11 PM
 
25,190 posts, read 18,502,610 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_midnight View Post
LOL, easy access to loans is not capitalism, it's taxation through inflation. That money eventually circulates and becomes worth less than when it was initially borrowed. Hence, why man4857 said that it was banks making money. He's criticizing the fractional reserve banking system. A fully paid off house is paid off in name only. Fail to pay property tax, that house is gone. A person rents a house for life whether they know it or not. If someone can't afford insurance on the house and something happens, it's over. Clearly that can be avoided, but property taxes cannot. Prop 13 is the one thing I praise California for. The average American relocates every 5 years. Most people take out a 30 year mortgage. Exactly when does that become a paid off house?

I do not agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but his advice to wipe out debt has worked for plenty.



While Nashville was awesome, I can't say Lexington, KY is as great. However, I travel a lot more for this job, so I've been able to make the best of it. I go to Japan on average 3-4 times a year for business and use my vacation days while there so I don't have to buy a plane ticket. I actually did the same thing when I had to go to San Diego for business in March. If I were in CA, I would stay there and probably never go anywhere outside of SF and Vegas and be worse off financially. This company would be located in California as we have to contact Japan a lot and it is more convenient to be on West Coast time instead of waiting late here, but all of the manufacturers moved here due to the high costs of doing business over there.



LOL, we are not advocating that anyone move to a lower COL area while making less money in real income. We're talking about making LA money (or slightly less) paying lower COL prices.

And what does that money buy you since these days anyone making that kind of money is working well over 40 hours a week. Do they even have time to enjoy the weather outside of driving?
Clearly you weren't doing well in California and I think you make up things as a defense.

A fully paid for house, in which the owner just PAYS the property taxes, is a whole lot cheaper than renting and is an asset that can be liquidated for a lot of money. It makes a huge difference in the lives of the people who inherit that house. Clearly if you had come from a family in California that had been property owning, you wouldn't be going on about the virtues of the South. That's for poor people.

Clearly a family who takes out a mortgage doesn't intend to move anytime soon. As noted, they can RETIRE in that house (and many pay off the mortgage early) and they can leave it to their kids who won't have to worry about paying rent (property tax is a fraction of this). They could sell the home, use it to pay for their kids education, etc. You're in denial about the privileges that well off families have versus poor renting families.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:18 AM
 
270 posts, read 203,660 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Clearly you weren't doing well in California and I think you make up things as a defense.

A fully paid for house, in which the owner just PAYS the property taxes, is a whole lot cheaper than renting and is an asset that can be liquidated for a lot of money. It makes a huge difference in the lives of the people who inherit that house. Clearly if you had come from a family in California that had been property owning, you wouldn't be going on about the virtues of the South. That's for poor people.

Clearly a family who takes out a mortgage doesn't intend to move anytime soon. As noted, they can RETIRE in that house (and many pay off the mortgage early) and they can leave it to their kids who won't have to worry about paying rent (property tax is a fraction of this). They could sell the home, use it to pay for their kids education, etc. You're in denial about the privileges that well off families have versus poor renting families.
Go ahead, please provide evidence that I am making things up. Oh wait, you don't have any, so you're the one making things up.

Clearly you have never owned a house. You don't JUST pay property taxes when you own a house. You pay insurance (in California you would need fire, earthquake, flood, and I'm guessing there is a mudslide insurance for certain areas), maintenance costs (toilet breaks, guess what you fix it yourself or you PAY a plumber, want the yard to look a certain way, most pay a gardener), and all of the utilities including water and garbage, which may be included when you rent. Then there are HOA fees. So who here is making up facts dude? You are as you don't even know what you're talking about. When you sell a house, you pay a commission to the agent so there's a cost associated with selling the home. Insurance, HOA fees, property taxes and maintenance costs are higher than rent.

In California you have a capped property tax, but in many states the taxes are subject to being raised all the time. It's actually a complaint that residents in Texas have. Even if you pay off the mortgage early, most of your early payments go toward interest payments. Assuming you have a 4.5% interest rate or lower, you'd probably be better off investing the extra mortgage payment in something that has a higher return and deducting the interest from your income tax returns.

Many families take out mortgages and then are forced to move. The guy in my office that moved in last year sold his place in North Carolina and bought a home here in KY. Those people that are moving to Texas for Toyota are selling or renting their homes and buying new homes in Texas. How about all of those people that migrated from California to Nevada years ago? Did they not buy a house? Do you honestly think the Jamba Juice employees that will be leaving Emeryville did not own homes? I'm sure some will rent, but some will sell as well.

Apparently it used to be 5 years, now it's creeping up to 8 Forbes Welcome
That's still not close to the 30 year mortgage (maybe 15). Then, there's refinancing that many do. That resets the loan and now you're back to paying interest.

What if the house is bought close to work, but the company decides to relocate an hour away (it happens). Guess what, you just got an increased cost of owning the home in the form of commuting.

As for your poor people thing. Warren Buffett lives in Nebraska. He's very poor. This guy just moved to Florida from New Jersey for lower taxes (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/bu...ered.html?_r=4), but yeah, I'm just toting poor people rhetoric in the South. Because according to you we only can choose the SF Bay Area or middle of nowhere Mississippi. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/edgl4.../#1c8839bab1c9 Never mind that the cities in the forbes link are all southern (Nashville being No 3) or from Texas

Last edited by peter_midnight; 05-08-2016 at 12:38 AM..
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:15 PM
 
755 posts, read 550,761 times
Reputation: 1250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanms3030 View Post
Living in Phoenix is a no brainer except for the fact that you'd have to live in Phoenix

Ha! That is what you keep telling yourself to feel good about living in overpriced California. Spent 20 years in LA with a home and a pool that I bought in 1999, moved to Phoenix in 2005 and have been here ever since, trust me, LA is better of course, but the proximity to LA and Vegas, plus the tons of extra cash, savings, and a beautifully located home makes Phoenix better, IMO.

Only if you really knew. I feel bad for most of my friends and family getting robbed there; all based on the "well, at least it is LA" kool aid people there drink. Wasting all of their wealth on a 600-700k home in poor school districts..... smh
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,740 posts, read 1,253,713 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
If your family and friends are happy living 5 people to a house in California, more power to them. If someone is happy living on the Great Plains more power to them.

I think that for a lot of people too it's not just whether you could find a job in a new city and what the cost of living. You need to like the town itself, and that's what you aren't quite understanding. It would be a massive adjustment to go from the Bay Area to Meridian, Mississippi. Many West or East Coast people could not happy with such a move, and the only ones I could see doing it are those who have family there. And I don't mean distant cousins either.

Part of the reason why your family and friends may chose to remain in California is they'd be around people who they know, and social support networks can be extremely important.
Well yes I understand there's the "do you like it" part or because my family and friends want to stay in CA because of their social circles or whatever it may be. But I'm pointing out that they're unwilling to move no matter the cost makes me wonder, how much will housing and overall general prices keep rising until they've had enough? There's a breaking point, money isn't unlimited, no matter how perfect a location maybe. Harsh reality but have to accept it and move on.

It's only a matter of time before housing prices reaches an average of $600,000 throughout SoCal. Right now there are crappy homes sold in bad neighborhoods for $350,000 for God's sakes.
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Old 05-08-2016, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
2,740 posts, read 1,253,713 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac1 View Post
Ha! That is what you keep telling yourself to feel good about living in overpriced California. Spent 20 years in LA with a home and a pool that I bought in 1999, moved to Phoenix in 2005 and have been here ever since, trust me, LA is better of course, but the proximity to LA and Vegas, plus the tons of extra cash, savings, and a beautifully located home makes Phoenix better, IMO.

Only if you really knew. I feel bad for most of my friends and family getting robbed there; all based on the "well, at least it is LA" kool aid people there drink. Wasting all of their wealth on a 600-700k home in poor school districts..... smh
I know a previous coworker of mines, who purchased a home for $600,000 in Garden Grove right before the housing bubble and right now he's stuck with it paying the mortgage. His payments are somewhere in the 2500/mo range and he's about to get married, somehow have to pull out another $30,000 from thin air, plus he's underwater big time on his house.

I just told him, good luck you'll be stuck the rest of your life paying that off and don't have children or do anything. I also told him, if in the future you get granted another chance to sell your house or do something about your mortgage, buy something for less than $300K, you'll thank yourself later. lol
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